Description of problem: At Installation, there is no selection of partition step for grub, it is installed on MBR without asking. It is possible to select a partition afterwards, in the general configuration step, but the MBR is already (over)written. Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): mageia 1 beta 1 dvd x86_64 How reproducible: (have not tried yet) Steps to Reproduce: 1. 2. 3. Reproducible: Steps to Reproduce:
IIRC, the bootloader isn't installed until _after_ the Summary step in the installer.
Yes that is correct and it does work correctly. I have just installed x86_64 beta1 to sdb7 and put the bootloader in sdb7 using the option on the summary page of the installer. The MBR was untouched. I can boot by chainloading into sdb7 as intended with no problems. I do feel however that the "preparing bootloader" dialog in the installer is somewhat unsettling, when you are expecting to be asked first about the bootloader setup. I raised this point in a mdv bug (when the installer changed) asking that a bootloader setup page be placed before the summary. I notice that this is now done in the new 2011 mdv installer.
CC: (none) => zen25000
I did a 2° install, and now it behaved as for Barry Jackson. I wonder what happened the first time. I agree with Barry Jackson : the bootloader setup page should be placed before the summary.
I had not expected it to be in the summary page, I just wondered why I kept missing it. So I tend to agree with Frederic and Barry. On the other hand, for people who haven't used Linux before, it is better to leave it the way it is now: It's less confusing, you don't want them to accidentally put Grub in the wrong place.
CC: (none) => m.van.waes
(In reply to comment #4) > I had not expected it to be in the summary page, I just wondered why I kept > missing it. So I tend to agree with Frederic and Barry. > On the other hand, for people who haven't used Linux before, it is better to > leave it the way it is now: It's less confusing, you don't want them to > accidentally put Grub in the wrong place. That is with Mageia 1 official in mind, I missed the "where do you want your bootloader" dialog there, too.
Hi Frederic and Barry, The longer I think about it, the more I think that installer shouldn't make it easy for new users to make mistakes. Cauldron installer is the blueprint for release installer, so I really think skipping the boot loader question is good. We know now were we can adjust the boot loader settings, if we want to. I'd like to close this bug. If you object, please explain!
Severity: normal => enhancement
Keywords: (none) => NEEDINFO
Wiping someone's MBR without asking is hardly user-friendly. There should be a bootloader location prompt that explains (a) why the MBR is default (you'll be able to boot other partitions from grub just fine), and (b) that unless you have a good reason to change this, you should leave it alone (a la the kernel help for most config options). A detailed backup Help screen wouldn't hurt, either. I'd be OK with bypassing this in situations where it's unlikely that the user cares, e.g. using the entire disk for Mageia, or nothing there but Mageia and a single Windows partition. For anything more complex, we should ask first.
CC: (none) => ftg
(In reply to comment #6) > Hi Frederic and Barry, > > The longer I think about it, the more I think that installer shouldn't make it > easy for new users to make mistakes. Cauldron installer is the blueprint for > release installer, so I really think skipping the boot loader question is good. > > We know now were we can adjust the boot loader settings, if we want to. > Yes *we* know, but many new users don't and end up unintentionally overwriting their MBR. If it was just for myself I would agree, but new users panic when they see the "generating bootloader" popup before they have had a chance to configure it. I recall one user just pulling the plug at that stage in fear of what was happening! Don't forget that *most* people use the installer only once - it's not something that the average user has a chance to get used to. > I'd like to close this bug. > > If you object, please explain! I still think it should be before the summary - but improved to offer the bootloader options with clear explanations of what each mean and suggesting that the default is probably best. The existing screen (accessed from the summary) has several shortcomings:- 1. It does not mention the MBR when referring to a device. eg. sda, yet most faqs refer to the MBR as the place to put the bootloader. 2. It does not identify the root partition among the options. I have often arrived there intending to install the bootloader to the root partition and forgotten which partition I am installing to. This should be identified. 3. Explanations are minimal. Just my two cents ;) Barry
Keywords: NEEDINFO => (none)
Source RPM: (none) => drakx-installer-stage2
I like the proposal of Frank Griffin (comment 7). No unexpected consequences : simple in the simple cases, choice when needed.
(In reply to comment #7)(In reply to comment #8)(In reply to comment #9) In fact, this is all about not getting what we expected. There aren't too many Mageia-developers, they are all very busy with problems that are far worse than this one. If what we could expect had been in a README or INSTALL.txt, this bug might never have been filed. None of you happens to be in the documentation team? (In reply to comment #8) > 2. It does not identify the root partition among the options. I have often > arrived there intending to install the bootloader to the root partition and > forgotten which partition I am installing to. This should be identified. That has happened to me, too, but I think that was my mistake: if I want to have x partitions, I should know what's on each one of them and which of them I am installing what on.
Nobody reads README or INSTALL, and if they do, it's forgotten by the time they get to the summary. This is about more than expectations. The effects of guessing wrong can be major. The request to flag the root partition is a valid one, again because of the consequences of guessing wrong. Once in the bootloader summary, your only option to verify the root partiton would be CTRL-ALT-F2 and "df". Most newbies aren't going to think of that. This is not a new issue. It arose in MDV quite a while ago when someone arbitrarily decided that anyone who didn't want their MBR corrupted could just repair it later. The resulting objections from the community are the reason the bootloader stuff was postponed until after Summary to begin with.
See Also: (none) => https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1042Whiteboard: (none) => HOWTO_INSTALL_MAGEIA
(In reply to comment #11) I appreciate your concern for newbies. They are my primary concern, too. Most newbies don't want anything else than a dual boot Linux/Windows machine. The more screens with choices to be made a newbie encounters, the bigger the risk that he'll make a wrong choice somewhere.
(In reply to comment #12) > (In reply to comment #11) > > I appreciate your concern for newbies. They are my primary concern, too. Most > newbies don't want anything else than a dual boot Linux/Windows machine. What newbies want and what is best/safest for them to have are two different things. Do you want the job of walking a newbie through repairing an MBR ? > > The more screens with choices to be made a newbie encounters, the bigger the > risk that he'll make a wrong choice somewhere. Which is why in designing things, you balance the risk of an unwanted choice against the risk of unwanted fallout from an automatic choice. That's why every file manager prompts by default when you try to delete a file.
(In reply to comment #7) > A detailed backup Help screen wouldn't hurt, > either. > A link that was sent to me by Manuel Hiebel, made me aware that I had totally ignored this remark. The help buttons will return http://www.mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=mageia1:errata
Whiteboard: HOWTO_INSTALL_MAGEIA => Errata , H_I_M
The actual summary "at install grub is put on MBR without asking", doesn't cover all that has been said here. I'm changing it into "Preparing and installing bootloader during Mageia install should be improved"
Summary: at install grub is put on MBR without asking => Preparing and installing bootloader during Mageia install should be improved
Assignee: bugsquad => thierry.vignaud
Whiteboard: Errata , H_I_M => Errata , HOWTO_INSTALL_MAGEIA
Keywords: (none) => USABILITYWhiteboard: Errata , HOWTO_INSTALL_MAGEIA => Errata
This is bug is very close to being a duplicate of bug 484
See Also: (none) => https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=484
See Also: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1042 => (none)
Pinging. because nothing happened to this report since more than 3 months ago, and it still has the status NEW or REOPENED. @ Thierry Please set status to ASSIGNED if you think this bug was assigned correctly. If for work flow reasons you can't do that, then please put OK on the whiteboard instead.
yes duplicate *** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of bug 484 ***
Status: NEW => RESOLVEDResolution: (none) => DUPLICATE