Description of problem: New users may not be aware that they can change the configuration of the bootloader in the summary and that the bootloader is written only after the summary is "ok'd". Action to take: We should document this better. Proposal: "The bootloader will be configured according to automatic detection of available installations on your harddisk. If you want to chack and/or change the configuration you can do so by hitting the "Configure" button in the summary. Note that the bootloader will not be written to the harddisk before you leave the summary." See https://www.mageia.org/pipermail/mageia-dev/20110320/003471.html Reproducible: Steps to Reproduce:
Source RPM: (none) => drakx-installer-stage2
Keywords: (none) => USABILITYCC: (none) => marja11
Bug 727 is almost a duplicate of this one
See Also: (none) => https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727Assignee: bugsquad => thierry.vignaud
I don't see that at an actual user experience improvements. Real end users don't want to be told about what is a boot loader and won't understand. I think it'll just make the installation displaying more dialogs, be more difficult to understand.
Priority: Normal => Low
CC: (none) => doc-bugs
*** Bug 727 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
CC: (none) => fjanss
(In reply to comment #2) > I don't see that at an actual user experience improvements. > Real end users don't want to be told about what is a boot loader and won't > understand. I think most 'real end users' would be rather insulted by that statement. ;) > I think it'll just make the installation displaying more dialogs, be more > difficult to understand. The whole point of this bug is to improve understanding and to make the necessary decisions during installation easier for everyone. It's not only novice end users who have been caught out by this issue. Many points in favour of a change were made clearly in the other bug. I feel that https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727 should have been kept open, as it has other suggestions which are not in here and which otherwise will be forgotten.
CC: (none) => zen25000
(In reply to comment #0) > > Proposal: > "The bootloader will be configured according to automatic detection of > available installations on your harddisk. If you want to check and/or > change the configuration you can do so by hitting the "Configure" > button in the summary. > Note that the bootloader will not be written to the harddisk before > you leave the summary." > What about a slight change: ************ The bootloader will now be prepared and configured according to automatic detection of available installations on your harddisk. Be patient, this may take a while. Advanced users can check and/or change the configuration by hitting the Bootloader-Configure button in the summary. Note that the bootloader will not be written to the harddisk before you leave the summary. ************* If this message is visible as long as the current one (Preparing bootloader... Be patient, this may take a while...), advanced users won't get confused as described in bug 727, and beginning users won't be confused by having a choice about the bootloader they don't understand
New proposal: Leave everything as it is, but only add one line: ********************* Preparing bootloader... Be patient, this may take a while... Advanced users: Note that the bootloader will not yet be written to the harddisk, but only after you leave the Summary. *********************
Is the following better? ******************** Preparing bootloader... Be patient, this may take a while... Advanced users: Note that it will not be written to the harddisk yet, but only after the Summary. ******************** cc'ing two doc team proofreaders
CC: (none) => gm4nzg, johnSee Also: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=727 => (none)
The message should be directed at _all_ users. I understand that as many novices as expert users have wondered about what was happening when the 'be patient' message is displayed. ******************** Preparing bootloader... Be patient, this may take a while... Note that bootloader data has NOT been written to the harddisk yet, this will occur after you accept the parameters in the summary ********************
I prefer John's text. I think it should be 'on the summary page.' or 'at the summary stage.' though as anybody installing for the first time will not have seen it before and may wonder why it doesn't end with a summary.
Addition/correction ******************** Preparing bootloader... Be patient, this may take a while... Note that bootloader data has NOT been written to the harddisk yet, this will occur after you accept the parameters in the summary Users users have the option to view or alter the configuration from the Summary Page. ********************
That seems better, except you have two 'Users'.
Thx Claire s/Users users have/Users have
(In reply to comment #10) > Addition/correction > > ******************** > > Preparing bootloader... > Be patient, this may take a while... > > Note that bootloader data has NOT been written to the harddisk yet, this will > occur after you accept the parameters in the summary > > Users have the option to view or alter the configuration from the Summary > Page. > > ******************** Thx, John & Claire :) Can we leave out "you accept the parameters in", that would frighten me, if I were a first time Linux user, and for a first time user the default will be OK: ******************** Preparing bootloader... Be patient, this may take a while... Note that bootloader data has NOT been written to the harddisk yet, this will occur after the summary Users have the option to view or alter the configuration from the Summary Page. ********************
First time users do not know when this "summary" will occur. My suggestion: *************************************** Preparing bootloader... Be patient, this may take a while... Note that the bootloader will not be written to the harddisk before the summary at the end of the installation. In that summary page you will have the option to view or alter the bootloader configuration if necessary. ***************************************
CC: (none) => molch.b
(In reply to comment #14) > First time users do not know when this "summary" will occur. My suggestion: > > *************************************** > Preparing bootloader... > Be patient, this may take a while... > > Note that the bootloader will not be written to the harddisk before the summary > at the end of the installation. In that summary page you will have the option > to view or alter the bootloader configuration if necessary. > > *************************************** In fact, it is already the next step, unless the "Monitor - choose a monitor" screen pops up first (happens sometimes). What about: *************************************** Preparing bootloader... Be patient, this may take a while... Note that the bootloader will not be written to the harddisk before the summary page that follows soon. In that summary page you will have the option to view or alter the bootloader configuration if necessary. ***************************************
(In reply to comment #14) > First time users do not know when this "summary" will occur. My suggestion: > > *************************************** > Preparing bootloader... > Be patient, this may take a while... > > Note that the bootloader will not be written to the harddisk before the summary > at the end of the installation. In that summary page you will have the option > to view or alter the bootloader configuration if necessary. > > *************************************** That works for me. I still feel that improvements to the configuration page should also be made:- 1. Make mention of "MBR" in the boot device selector, rather than just listing e.g. 'sda' along with all the partitions. It is not obvious to everyone that placing the bootloader on a device rather than a partition means that it will overwrite the existing MBR. 2. Flag the new installation root partition in the selector so that it is easy to select when that option is required.
I've been thinking about this one while testing the beta. I think the section name in the left column that currently says "Bootloader" should be changed to "Initrd", and the dialog should display Generating /boot/initrd, since that's what it's actually doing. That would help to alleviate the fear that the mbr is being overwritten, when it isn't.
CC: (none) => davidwhodgins
(In reply to comment #17) > I've been thinking about this one while testing the beta. > > I think the section name in the left column that currently says > "Bootloader" should be changed to "Initrd", and the dialog should > display Generating /boot/initrd, since that's what it's actually > doing. > > That would help to alleviate the fear that the mbr is being > overwritten, when it isn't. Thanks, Dave Sounds perfect to me :)
This still needs translating/adding marja.
(In reply to comment #19) > This still needs translating/adding marja. Thx, Claire I don't know how these things work, yet. Should I first ask i18n to make the translations and then ask Thierry whether he is willing to change this, or should it be the other way around? @ Thierry Do you agree with changing the left column section name "Bootloader" into "Initrd" and change the displayed message into "Generating /boot/initrd" cc'ing i18n team leader and deputy team leader
CC: (none) => oliver.bgr, remi
No. It's quite a less lot understandable by end users. They may understand bootloader but most will definitively not understand "Generating /boot/initrd" "Generating boot images" maybe?
Why do we need something in the left column at all for this step? I never understood that there was an extra section name where the user does not have to do anything but look at the message which pops up. This message (as been discussed earlier in this thread) is all that's needed.
Don't know what could be a better label for this stage but the current situation in Mageia 2-beta2 is quite confusing indeed. What happened to me during installation is that the left column has shown Bootloader, then after the preparing bootloader popup it asked me to select a monitor. I was not offered a choice to actually configure the bootloader until later when the left column has already passed Bootloader to Summary. (At least it preserved my MBR, I was not sure about that either seeing the messages.) Maybe the Bootloader label could be replaced with Preparing and the Summary with Configuration or Settings or something which suggests that the user can set options on that screen in addition to enhancing the preparing bootloader message to make it clear it is not installing it at that point. It could say "Gathering information for bootloader selection" or something like that.
CC: (none) => balaton
In SVN, "bootloader" is now hidden in the left column. I've also replaced "preparing bootloader..." by "preparing boot images"
> I've also replaced "preparing bootloader..." by "preparing boot images" That to me seems even less non-tech user friendly ( Err why do I need photos of boots? ) What about "Please wait..." ;)
With a delay that can easily be 7 minutes, there has to be some indication of what is going on. I'd rather have something like Generating initrd (Initial startup program, customized for this hardware).
Too long, and will be even longer in most translations. What about: "Preparing initial startup program" ?
(In reply to comment #27) > Too long, and will be even longer in most translations. > > What about: "Preparing initial startup program" ? I'm fine with that wording.
Yes, much better than tech jargon. +1
CC: (none) => mageia
Yep. Seems to me the best solution for everybody 1. Remove "Bootloader" in left column 2. Displaying "Preparing initial startup program" As we already agreed this sequence does take some time. Users tend to be impatient and may think that the process is hanging. I suggest to keep the additional line "This may take some time..." to beware impatient users from pushing the power button.
Which is what was done. Installer hasn't been yet uploaded with the new string yet though.
Status: NEW => RESOLVEDResolution: (none) => FIXED
Created attachment 1817 [details] bootloader step thierry you need to ping the i18n team
Attachment 1817 mime type: application/octet-stream => image/png
No. Automatic mailing about altered strings should be fixed.
well it seems no fixed.. I18N team can you check the string of the 'bootloader' step ? see https://bugs.mageia.org/attachment.cgi?id=1817 if it's ok then sorry
Status: RESOLVED => REOPENEDResolution: FIXED => (none)QA Contact: (none) => mageia-i18n
Don't reopen.
Status: REOPENED => RESOLVEDResolution: (none) => FIXED
I noticed during testing of the Mageia 2 RC dvd, that while the text displayed is now correct, as per comment 30, the dialog box that it's in still has the title Bootloader Configuration.
Status: RESOLVED => REOPENEDResolution: FIXED => (none)
(and is still in english in the french installation)
That's the job of fr translators to translate. Fee free to commit something good. As for comment #36, translators will cry if we do this now. They already did for the new string. As this is like this for 4 years, it's not urgent to do it now. It can be fixed after mga2 release, for mga3 (in perl-install/install/steps_list.pm)
Hi, This bug was filed against cauldron, but we do not have cauldron at the moment. Please report whether this bug is still valid for Mageia 2. Thanks :) Cheers, marja
Keywords: (none) => NEEDINFO
@ Remmy I didn't see the new Dutch string ("Preparing initial startup program") when installing in Dutch, was it translated?
CC: (none) => remco
Comment 36 still applies, and as this is an installer bug report, it should stay assigned to cauldron.
And Dave should remove NEEDINFO nex time ;P
Keywords: NEEDINFO => (none)CC: (none) => sander.lepik
(In reply to comment #40) > @ Remmy > > I didn't see the new Dutch string ("Preparing initial startup program") when > installing in Dutch, was it translated? It appears to be commented out in the .po files (not just for Dutch, but all languages?). I don't think the text currently shows. @tv, can we close?
seems we can
I still think the header for that dialog box should not say "Preparing Bootloader" but instead simply "Please Wait..." https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9648