I have found that the plasma-network-management applet is installed by urpmi, but not activated.  To activate it, you  must explicitly add it using the KDE desktop GUI.  

If you do that, and then execute it and select the wireless interface and specify NM, the needed files are created and the interface comes up.

At least in my opinion, it is not acceptable to expect garden-variety users to figure this out.  Especially when GNOME handles it all without a murmur.

something that you can do kde team *?

Assignee: bugsquad => nicolas.lecureuil
Source RPM: NetworkManager => networkmanager plasma-network-management
CC: (none) => balcaen.john, lmenut

Adding by default plasma-network-management will pull by default networkmanager.
Since nm is not the default on mageia, i don't see while we should enforce the installation of it.
Also there's not « need » to activate the plasma-applet in the taskbar to configure your network with nm, you can simply configure it using systemsettings (the kcm files are packaged with the plasma applet).

So in short until nm is the default i don't think it's a good idea to enforce the use of nm on every user(for the record i'm not against nm since i'm using it since mga1 without problem but *without* the ifcfg module using the native keyfile module instead)

Well, my idea was rather the reverse: have NM pull in plasma-network-management if KDE is installed and add it to the default panel.  I agree that until NM is the default, it shouldn't be pulled in for everyone.

>Also there's not « need » to activate the plasma-applet in the taskbar to
configure your network with nm, you can simply configure it using
systemsettings (the kcm files are packaged with the plasma applet).

Could you give the details of this, please ?  I couldn't find anything in the systemsettings network dialog that had anything to do with configuring NM.

Further, several bug reports have indicated that if NM is started at bootup, it interferes with wireless even if the interface indicates that it is not controlled by NM.  So, if NM is installed, but is not the default, netapplet may need to do the NM configuration even if NM is not responsible for the interface.

I suppose the lynchpin issue here is whether having NM running in the system still interferes with non-NM wireless interfaces.

If it does not, then the applet isn't needed.

If it does, then if NM is going to be active (and it will get re-enabled for every refresh of the package), it has to be used for the wireless in KDE.

Manuel, since you have a tracker bug for NM, is there an easy way to post a single comment to all of the tracked bugs to see if manually installing the applet, launching it, and configuring the wireless interface that way makes NM work for everyone who reported problems with NM and wireless ?

If that's true, then all we would need is a way for drakconnect, maybe nmcli wifi connect, to do the configuration the applet does if the user checks the NM box, and we could just add something to the errata to say that if you have NM installed because of GNOME, you may have to configure your wireless as NM-controlled (or activate it for the first time in GNOME) to get it to work.

(In reply to comment #5)
> Manuel, since you have a tracker bug for NM, is there an easy way to post a
> single comment to all of the tracked bugs to see if manually installing the
> applet, launching it, and configuring the wireless interface that way makes NM
> work for everyone who reported problems with NM and wireless ?

yep as with all other search or list of bugs: 

https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?bug_id=7317,7249,6675,1138,7358,6936,3782,7551,865,3928,7498,7873&tweak=1

Blocks: (none) => 7557

(In reply to comment #6)
> (In reply to comment #5)
> > Manuel, since you have a tracker bug for NM, is there an easy way to post a
> > single comment to all of the tracked bugs to see if manually installing the
> > applet, launching it, and configuring the wireless interface that way makes NM
> > work for everyone who reported problems with NM and wireless ?
> 
> yep as with all other search or list of bugs: 
> 
> https://bugs.mageia.org/buglist.cgi?bug_id=7317,7249,6675,1138,7358,6936,3782,7551,865,3928,7498,7873&tweak=1

Yes, I knew about getting the list so that I could post separately to each.  I was wondering if there was some magic way to post the same comment to a list of bugs, like Claire or Marja did with the mass ping.

If not, I'll do the posts separately.

check all of them and add a comment at the below of the page :)

(In reply to comment #4)
> Well, my idea was rather the reverse: have NM pull in plasma-network-management
> if KDE is installed and add it to the default panel.  I agree that until NM is
> the default, it shouldn't be pulled in for everyone.
Hum this solution is not really easy with urpmi (or i'm probably missing some functionnality in urpmi) & the only current workaround i can find so far would be something like that :
1) nm is installed by default
2) nm requiring a « gui » configuration tool (something virtualprovides such as nm-gui) which would be also provided by the plasma-applet
3) have kde requiring the plasma-applet so we can « prefer » the kde app instead of the gtk's one.


> >Also there's not « need » to activate the plasma-applet in the taskbar to
> configure your network with nm, you can simply configure it using
> systemsettings (the kcm files are packaged with the plasma applet).
> 
> Could you give the details of this, please ?  I couldn't find anything in the
> systemsettings network dialog that had anything to do with configuring NM.

Systemsettings/Networkconnections
In this section you can add/remove/edit your nm configuration.

> 
> Further, several bug reports have indicated that if NM is started at bootup, it
> interferes with wireless even if the interface indicates that it is not
> controlled by NM. 
NM was not started by default initially but i guess it was changed due to the switch either to systemd by default or to gnome3 which requires nm.

> So, if NM is installed, but is not the default, netapplet
> may need to do the NM configuration even if NM is not responsible for the
> interface.
not easy i guess :/
the installer should probably drop a configuration file to disable the wifi interface in the networkmanager configuration.
Something for blino or tv i guess :p

>Systemsettings/Networkconnections
In this section you can add/remove/edit your nm configuration

This makes no mention of NM.  Are you sure this writes the same NM conf files that the plasma applet does ?  If KDE isn't using NM by default, why would it ?

Please refer to the discussion in bug#7873 and bug#2160 and see if your problems with NM go away if you either allow GNOME (if you have it installed) to activate it or you install plasma-network-management under KDE, add it to your panel, and use it to configure your SSID.

For NM to handle wireless correctly, it needs to create SSID-specific files of its own by parsing the ifcfg files produced by drakconnect.  GNOME's nm-applet does this automatically, since it has no option to *not* use NM, but since NM isn't the default yet for other desktops, it doesn't happen automatically there.  

You'll need to install NM and let it start, and recreate your wireless interface with drakconnect specifying "Allow NM to control this interface".

Please test and post your results, as whether NM works for all the chips involved when it's properly configured will have a significant impact on how it needs to be handled for non-GNOME desktops in MGA3.

>Systemsettings/Networkconnections
In this section you can add/remove/edit your nm configuration

This makes no mention of NM.  Are you sure this writes the same NM conf files that the plasma applet does ?  If KDE isn't using NM by default, why would it ?

(In reply to comment #8)
> check all of them and add a comment at the below of the page :)

Cool.  I learn something new every day, thanks.

(In reply to comment #12)
> >Systemsettings/Networkconnections
> In this section you can add/remove/edit your nm configuration
> 
> This makes no mention of NM.  Are you sure this writes the same NM conf files
> that the plasma applet does ? 
i am because i'm using it & it's showing my nm configuration network.
I'll add a screenshot later once i' get back @ home.
The plasma applet is just an applet. When you're editing the configuration files you simply popup the adequat kcm entries.
And yes there's no mention of nm in this kcm configuration tool.

Created attachment 3009 [details]
screenshot of kcm entry for networkmanager

Attached is the screenshot of the kcm entry from systemsettings.
You can trigger it from the console using for example:
kcmshell4 kcm_networkmanagement

Regards,

OK, thanks John.  Originally, when I opened Network, it displayed my SSID in the Wireless tab.  I selected it and clicked Edit, and all of the details were correct.

Does the fact that the interface appeared at all mean that the NM files have been written ?  If not, will it write them when I close it even though I haven't modified anything ?

(In reply to comment #16)
> Does the fact that the interface appeared at all mean that the NM files have
> been written ? 
Yes.

> If not, will it write them when I close it even though I
> haven't modified anything ?
Well it should not (i hope) wrote anything at all if nothing was changed.

@ Frank

Is this bug still valid?

Please close if it isn't

Thanks :-)

CC: (none) => marja11
Keywords: (none) => NEEDINFO

Well, installing KDE still doesn't install the plasma network applet by default, so NM won't work under KDE by default.  In addition, NM is not systemd-enabled even if GNOME is installed, 

The original impetus for this bug report was that net-applet wasn't working for a lot of wireless devices, so there was really no option except NM, and if you were using KDE, NM wouldn't work without the plasma applet.  

If net-applet has been fixed to the extent that people don't need NM, then I guess it doesn't matter that NM doesn't work under KDE.  But since NM doesn't seem to get enabled even if installed, the fact that pulling in the plasma network applet also pulls in NM shouldn't really matter, but I still think it would be nice if KDE users had some way out-of-the-box to use NM if they want to.

Thx for the feedback, Frank

Keywords: NEEDINFO => (none)

is it still valid ? ( i have not tested ).

CC: (none) => mageia

As far as I know this is still valid.  All my installs install every desktop, including GNOME, but NM is not enabled (I'm not even sure if it gets installed, as I have post-install scripts that install it).  I still have to manually install the plasma applet.

It's been a while since I did a fresh install, but my recollection is that I had to use nmcli to activate the wifi initially.

I've just done a new fresh install, and here's how it stands in current cauldron:

Specifying all desktops in Custom, NM *is* installed but it is *not* enabled, so it doesn't start at boot.  plasma-applet-nm is not installed, but if you start NM and install the applet it automatically detects and connects the wifi.

I'm guessing that GNOME detects that NM isn't started and starts it automatically.

I think that standard policy is to enable any service when it's installed, so I'm not sure why that doesn't happen with NM.

Also, if NM is installed, it would make sense to pull in plasma-applet-nm to make it accessible to plasma.  If NM isn't running, the applet will tell you that if you attempt to use it.

Where are we with this ?  NM is more mainstream MGA than it was when I entered this.  What is the preferred relationship between NM and Plasma, considering that they are supposed to coexist now ?

Ping ?

(In reply to Frank Griffin from comment #19)
> Well, installing KDE still doesn't install the plasma network applet by
> default, so NM won't work under KDE by default.  In addition, NM is not
> systemd-enabled even if GNOME is installed, 
> 
> The original impetus for this bug report was that net-applet wasn't working
> for a lot of wireless devices, so there was really no option except NM, and
> if you were using KDE, NM wouldn't work without the plasma applet.  
> 
> If net-applet has been fixed to the extent that people don't need NM, then I
> guess it doesn't matter that NM doesn't work under KDE.  But since NM
> doesn't seem to get enabled even if installed, the fact that pulling in the
> plasma network applet also pulls in NM shouldn't really matter, but I still
> think it would be nice if KDE users had some way out-of-the-box to use NM if
> they want to.

(In reply to Frank Griffin from comment #24)
> Where are we with this ?  NM is more mainstream MGA than it was when I
> entered this.  What is the preferred relationship between NM and Plasma,
> considering that they are supposed to coexist now ?

Currently, Plasma + net_applet WORKS FOR ME (ethernet + WiFi + even 2 simultaneous connections). BUT:

2 drawbacks currently:
1) With old scripts, Network delays significantly system boot.
2) Right-click not functioning see Bug 22218

I agree that this can be ditched on that desktop in favour NetworkManager, more mainstream, but there is also desktop env and window managers that don't have network-manager GUI. Or we should provide for them the GTK one.

CC: (none) => ouaurelien

Several tests with WiFi and Ethernet connections:

With classic old ifcfg and drakconnect, Network.service delays the system boot time in about 6 to 10 seconds even on Ethernet with dhcp or fixed IPv4.

With NetworkManager.service, the system boots really fast, even with a WPA2 protected WiFi (with password saved in conf file, I know security....).

So, yes, NetworkManager.service is more reliable and faster than ifcfg scripts.



Back to this bug report, yes, installing NetworkManager stack under Plasma does not trigger the installation of plasma-applet-nm to be able to manage NetworkManager connections.

But, today, the recommended way is to carefully read this wiki page:
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Switching_to_networkmanager

There is a line about Plasma applet there.

We could add a recommend to plasma-applet-nm for NetworkManager package... at the price it could install full Plasma/KDE stack... like before NM took several GNOME stuff under Plasma...

Unsure what to do, so, adding David G. for advice here.

CC: (none) => geiger.david68210
Source RPM: networkmanager plasma-network-management => networkmanager plasma-applet-nm
Hardware: x86_64 => All
Target Milestone: --- => Mageia 9
Severity: major => normal
Summary: NM does not work as installed in KDE => Installing NetworkManager under Plasma should recommend plasma-applet-nm