Using urpmi.addmedia --distrib enable non-free by default. Here is a patch to revert this change, against sysadmin svn. Reproducible: Steps to Reproduce:
Created attachment 186 [details] Patch to disable non-free by default
In mdv it made sense to disable non-free by default on Free only; but in Mageia there's no Free/One, it's all Default ATM.
Is anyone against this change ( because it has been soon 2 months, maybe next time, I will do it as usual with a huge flamewar on -dev instead of doing the right thing of filling a bug + patch )
Created attachment 470 [details] Patch to disable non-free by default New patch to take in acocunt file move, and updates
Attachment 186 is obsolete: 0 => 1
(In reply to comment #3) > Is anyone against this change ( because it has been soon 2 months, maybe next > time, I will do it as usual with a huge flamewar on -dev instead of doing the > right thing of filling a bug + patch ) sorry, I didn't see and comment this bug report sooner non-free contains some firmwares and microcodes for lots of wireless cards (intel, ..), non-free drivers for nvidia and ATI video, and so this change interacts with installer and drakconf. Did you test installer and drakconf with non-free disabled? Are they ready for this change? Can they allow to enable automatically non-free if the user wants to use non-free stuff when he configures video or network interface? I think that we need to be sure that installer and drakconf can manage properly when non-free is disabled before this change can occur. I wonder if it isn't a bit late to test properly all this cases, and so to do this change. regards, Luc
CC: (none) => lmenut, mageia, thierry.vignaudHardware: i586 => All
The lateness excuse seems rather curious. Had I committed this right now as I planned, would people have said "it is too late to touch to mirrors now, please change nothing and do not enable non-free by default ?". I doubt. Regarding the installer, since this is already what was done for the free edition of Mandriva and since the installer is perfectly able to work without network connection, I fail to see how this could change anything. The same goes for drakconf. I am starting to think that I am the online one to care about this since years, and that's maybe the sign that I do not really belong to ths community.
BTW, the last time I reported the issue, it took 2 years to have it fixed : https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=40033
I think that pretty much everyone would be happy if there was just another checkbox in the install somewhere to enable or disable either of non-free or tainted. Set the defaults however you like. As long as resetting it is easy and visible to inexperienced users, having them off by default should be fine. However, done properly, this would need support in the immediate install help and possibly a float-over tooltip, and therefore translation, so, realistically, it probably *is* too late. I've only ever done Custom installs, so I'm not sure whether the GNOME and KDE install paths display the Package Selection panel. If they do, that would be a good place for such a checkbox.
CC: (none) => ftg
While testing upgrade from 2010.0, I just noticed that since non free is enabled by default, icedtea and java-1.6 were mixed on upgrade, and this broke java applet in firefox.
I am against this change until: - When the user is reconfiguring his hardware there's a "a (proprietary driver|firmware) for your (gfx|wifi) is available in the nonfree repository, enable it? Yes/No" - There're two products, Default and One (or any other name), using the free DVD, nonfree is added but disabled by default, and for One, nonfree is added and enabled by default. The point is, average users don't usually read the release notes, and not all of them will ask in the forum, they'll try, it doesn't work, chuck the CD into the nearest garbage can...
I agree with Ahmad, we should not disable nonfree by default without giving an explicit choice for the user during install/configuration. Unexperienced users will probably expect their graphic cards or wireless chipsets to work out the box. This change goes against ease of use that we are striving for. It's more practical for end-users to make freedom opt-in.
(In reply to comment #9) > While testing upgrade from 2010.0, I just noticed that since non free is > enabled by default, icedtea and java-1.6 were mixed on upgrade, and this broke > java applet in firefox. IINM, this is an update-alternatives mess/issue, not specific to java/nonfree...
(In reply to comment #7) > BTW, the last time I reported the issue, it took 2 years to have it fixed : > https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=40033 But I did fix it when I saw it
Yeah, I do agree with misc that the free install really should have nonfree disabled by default as planned. But in the same planning it was discussed that the installer should detect the need for nonfree and ask the enduser if he/she want to enable it. (or if we skip detection, simply ask) Unfortunately no-one have had time to implement this yet, and since we are in full freeze with the release less than 1 week away, I think mirrors should stay as they are now, and we target Mageia 2 to fix this properly. Is this ok by everyone ?
CC: (none) => tmbTarget Milestone: --- => Mageia 2
Well, the mirrors policy should then be changed : http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=mirrors_policy
Yeah, first line of nonfree decription does confirm my comment 14: - disabled by default, installer will ask to enable it if it detects hw that need driver/fw from here we are missing the "installer will ask..." I'll alter the text on the wiki, and as soon as we reopen Cauldron we disable nonfree by default and we have to make sure to fix the installer for Mageia2.
(In reply to comment #14) > Yeah, > > I do agree with misc that the free install really should have nonfree disabled > by default as planned. > Is there another type, other than a "free install"? AFAICS, we only have one single product "Default". I think the "installer/XFdrake/drakconnect will ask.." bit should be implemented first _before_ actually disabling nonfree by default, not the other way around.
(In reply to comment #17) > (In reply to comment #14) > > Yeah, > > > > I do agree with misc that the free install really should have nonfree disabled > > by default as planned. > > > > Is there another type, other than a "free install"? AFAICS, we only have one > single product "Default". > free as in the definition of core: * only free/libre stuff as described by FSF / OSI > I think the "installer/XFdrake/drakconnect will ask.." bit should be > implemented first _before_ actually disabling nonfree by default, not the other > way around. The problem with that is that most likely nothing will happend as was the situation with Mageia 1. So nonfree are now disabled by default for Cauldron (and upcoming Mageia 2) as outlined by: http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=mirrors_policy And the need for adapting/fixing installer is added to: http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=iso2:technical_specification#installer
Status: NEW => RESOLVEDResolution: (none) => FIXED
(In reply to comment #18) > (In reply to comment #17) > > (In reply to comment #14) > > > Yeah, > > > > > > I do agree with misc that the free install really should have nonfree disabled > > > by default as planned. > > > > > > > Is there another type, other than a "free install"? AFAICS, we only have one > > single product "Default". > > > > free as in the definition of core: > * only free/libre stuff as described by FSF / OSI > But doesn't the Core repo contain some non-free kernel firmware? And I was talking about only-Default (in Mageia) vs. Free/One (in Mandriva); i.e.: - If you install from the Free DVD you only get free-open-source software repos enabled by default - If you install from the One CD, you get nonfree repos enabled by default. This is moot in Mageia, there's only Default. > > I think the "installer/XFdrake/drakconnect will ask.." bit should be > > implemented first _before_ actually disabling nonfree by default, not the other > > way around. > > The problem with that is that most likely nothing will happend as was the > situation with Mageia 1. > So you admit that probably nothing will happen, the drakxtools won't be adapted for that change, yet this change has already been committed with the promise that "the drakxtools will offer a way to enable nonfree when needed"... I find those two stances contradictory. (FWIW, just lately I've seen a report in the forum of user who can't access the internet at all with Mageia, _both_ his wired and wireless chips require firmware, but maybe that's a corner case). > So nonfree are now disabled by default for Cauldron (and upcoming Mageia 2) as > outlined by: http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=mirrors_policy > [...] > And the need for adapting/fixing installer is added to: > http://mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=iso2:technical_specification#installer Adding them with the "hope" that they'll get implemented even though you think they probably won't? good, let's be optimistic at least :) We could also opt for educating the users, we could stick a link to a page with text like this http://www.mageia.org/wiki/doku.php?id=iso1:mageia1_release_notes#the_mageia_online_repositories explaining what each repo is, how the packages are sorted in Mageia; this should be added to a dialogue that appears when the users click "Add" or "Add a specific media mirror". Not optimum, but better than nothing.