Morgan, it would help if you could summarise what this is about. (Yes, I looked at the thread). Does the Classic Installer not have WiFi, for example?

CC: (none) => lewyssmith

The nonfree firmware must be loaded at boot time for many wireless network
interfaces to function.

As the question of whether or not to allow nonfree packages is not asked until
the installer is already running, it's too late to load the firmware.

This change is about enabling nonfree firmware in installer, which also means
enabling the nonfree repos by default in the install to allow for later
firmware nonfree package updates.

The only remaining option for those who don't want to use nonfree packages would
be to use the netinstall iso image.

CC: (none) => davidwhodgins

I've now posted the question to the council ml.

Sidenote:

Yesterday I added in Release notes a chapter on using netinstaller to upgrade
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_9_Release_Notes#Upgrading_using_the_Netinstall_ISO
- and improved sections above to suit.

If DVD ISO gain wifi support the two chapters above need be updated, and also https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_Netinstall_Iso_(Boot.iso), documentation, and some other places.

(In reply to Dave Hodgins from comment #2)
> As the question of whether or not to allow nonfree packages is not asked
> until
> the installer is already running, it's too late to load the firmware.

I don't understand that : what would prevent the installer to ask for non-free support, then add the repo then install the firmware and do a modprobe of the required module when/if the user is ok to use non-free firmware ?

> This change is about enabling nonfree firmware in installer, which also means
> enabling the nonfree repos by default in the install to allow for later
> firmware nonfree package updates.

Maybe not be default, but at will no ?

CC: (none) => bruno

The firmware is loaded by the kernel very early in the boot as the devices
are detected, including when needed for video cards.

By the time the installer can ask for user input, there is no way to tell
the kernel to recheck which firmware should be loaded and get it to load
that firmware.

(In reply to Dave Hodgins from comment #6)
> The firmware is loaded by the kernel very early in the boot as the devices
> are detected, including when needed for video cards.

Well a wifi card has not the same requirements as a video card from an install perspective. Without video, nothing to see, that's a real issue. Without wifi, everything *may* work fine.

> By the time the installer can ask for user input, there is no way to tell
> the kernel to recheck which firmware should be loaded and get it to load
> that firmware.

Well, with lspcidrake we can get the wifi card name and the driver name and load it on the fly if the user asks for it.

There is a difference between loading a kernel module and loading firmware.
The firmware must be available at boot while a kernel module can be loaded
later.

The core firmware files are currently available at boot time in the
classical installer. The nonfree firmware files are not available, even
though the packages containing them are on the iso images.

The firmware files must be present in the /lib/firmware directory or it's
subdirectories.

I was under the impression that the firmware file was only loaded when the driver initiated itself. I'm mostly familiar with Intel drivers, and that's how they seem to work (looking at the trace of dmesg, the driver when loading loads itself the firmware). Do others work differently ?

Except for my amdgpu laptop, none of my systems or hardware needs any firmware,
so it's not something I can test. My understanding is from prior discussions
about the wireless not working in the installer.

the confusion you have here comes from not understanding how the classical insaller works.

the point is that the nonfree firmware on the isos are in rpms on the iso media, not unpacked.

the installer stage1 boots kernel (vmlinuz) and loads initrd (all.rdz) and starts up stage2, the installer...

so running kernel has no access to nonfree firmware contained in rpms.
(it could technically unpack the rpm contents, but that would eat memory and cpu resources)


the "fix" for this is to switch to using the nonfree initrd (all-nonfree.rdz)
that one has firmwares for most of the storage/network drivers needing firmware


the downside is that it eats  52MB more of install isos, wich means more rpms need to be dropped to keep iso size within limits...


and you cant test the firmware issue with gpus, as we run installer in framebuffer mode, so no firmware needed at install time.

No objections within the council. Request to add the firmware for stage 1
sent to the mailing lists.

Closing as fixed.

Resolution: (none) => FIXED
Status: NEW => RESOLVED

Fixed = coming already in mga9 final?

Yes, this bug was about asking the council. Council was asked and no-one
who voted objected, so approved request passed on to iso builders.

Okay nice :)

So blocker until fixed then.

I could start a new bug, but reopening this for a more complete track until finalised.

tmb have described what change is needed in comment 12



  The change should be noted in release notes both under
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_9_Release_Notes#Available_installation_media
  and
https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_9_Release_Notes#Using_the_installer_to_Upgrade


* To not confuse RC1 testers, we stand off from changing until final - or make a note on the coming change, and then finalise it at release. *


Also, improve https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Installation_Media#Installation-only_media aboput this subject.
(And on another subject it should also be edited to describe upgrades using the installers...)

And probably other places need be updated too.

Oh, and the documentation pages on installation

Status: RESOLVED => REOPENED
Status comment: (none) => Apart from effecting work per comment 12, also update rel notes, other pages, and documentation
CC: (none) => doc-bugs
Priority: Normal => release_blocker
Target Milestone: Mageia 10 => Mageia 9
Resolution: FIXED => (none)
Keywords: (none) => FOR_RELEASENOTES9

(In reply to Morgan Leijström from comment #16)
> I could start a new bug, but reopening this for a more complete track until
> finalised.

There was already bug 28323, but may as well use this one now.

As mentioned in an earlier discussion on qa-discuss, it's not just a matter of including the non-free firmware. The installer stage 2 needs some changes to enable use of WPA/WPA2 encryption.

CC: (none) => mageia

Hum,
This wasn't presented in the same manner to the council. Even if this is OK for the principle, I understand now that there is still some work and wide testing before this can be done. And this would add more delay before the release. Considering that, I would say this is (too) late for Mageia 9.

CC: (none) => yvesbrungard

*** Bug 28323 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

I leave to people with knowledge and authority to change target to Mageia 10 if suitable.

same for me as papoteur, i would say OK for mageia 10 but too late for mga9, we are already in complete freeze.

CC: (none) => mageia

Agreed. I've spent some time on it today, but I haven't got it to work reliably. Something is disabling the wireless network interface after it's been configured, but it doesn't happen every time.

Good to have decided.

Release notes 9 describe since some days upgrading using netinstaller for wiki connection.


Set FOR_RELEASENOTES10 when available.  - for describing the change, and also update other wiki pages and documentation like mentioned in comment 16.

Status comment: Apart from effecting work per comment 12, also update rel notes, other pages, and documentation => Apart from effecting work per comment 12 & 17, also update rel notes, other pages, and documentation
Keywords: FOR_RELEASENOTES9 => (none)

Very nice, a perfectly bureaucratic bug report. So the only questions that should be addressed are:

Who is able to implement it? How long will it take?

Before voting something, one should first check how and who can do it!! In my opinion, this decision is a complete non-sense, especially so late in the release development and with so few workforces to implement it. For what? Avoiding plugging an ethernet cable???

CC: (none) => eatdirt

Answering the last part first, there are many situations where an ethernet cable is either unavailable, inconvenient, or impossible, but wifi can be used. For example, I'm not going to lug my brother's desktop down a flight of stairs so I can install/upgrade Mageia for him, nor am I going to buy and run 75 feet of ethernet cable just for that purpose. He needs a wifi option.

As for the other part, going by the above comments, Martin W. and TMB, working together, can probably get this working in plenty of time for the M10 release. It was originally assumed that it could be done for M9, but some investigation showed that it required more time and work than was feasible for that, so the target was changed. You must have missed reading that part.

It's been known that it *could* be done since Martin W. added wifi to the nonfree netinstall isos. But, the Council had to vote on changing policy regarding having a totally free installer before it made any sense to proceed.

The milestone was changed to Mageia 10.

When the vote was taken regarding the policy change, the intention was to
add it to the Mageia 9 classical iso images, with the understanding that the
only change needed was adding the firmware to the installer, rather then just
having the firmware rpm packages on the iso.

That was done, but when tested that turned out not to be the only change
needed.

Hence the addition of the nonfree firmware has been delayed until Mageia 10,
with the assumption that the Mageia tools maintainers can implement it by then.

Thank you for the clarifications. I also share the opinion that it can be done for Mageia 10.

@Thomas: Your brother should consider CPL (https://amzn.eu/d/11w3Sik), because installing tens of Gb over wifi will be long.