Bug 30981 - Let the UEFI language setting be used to offer the default install language.
Summary: Let the UEFI language setting be used to offer the default install language.
Status: REOPENED
Alias: None
Product: Mageia
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Installer (show other bugs)
Version: Cauldron
Hardware: All Linux
Priority: Normal enhancement
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Mageia tools maintainers
QA Contact:
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2022-10-18 02:24 CEST by Ben McMonagle
Modified: 2023-09-29 07:42 CEST (History)
3 users (show)

See Also:
Source RPM:
CVE:
Status comment:


Attachments
# dmidecode |more output (12.68 KB, text/plain)
2023-06-03 05:26 CEST, Ben McMonagle
Details
simple script to print currently installed UEFI language (87 bytes, application/x-shellscript)
2023-09-28 22:21 CEST, Ben McMonagle
Details
simple script to output the UEFI bios language selection (145 bytes, application/x-shellscript)
2023-09-29 00:36 CEST, Ben McMonagle
Details
probably a better script to recover the UEFI bios language (813 bytes, application/x-shellscript)
2023-09-29 06:03 CEST, Ben McMonagle
Details

Description Ben McMonagle 2022-10-18 02:24:56 CEST
Description of problem: Modern UEFI BIOS can allow the language used in the UEFI setup to be changed to suit the user. in my case I have a Toshiba laptop that offers both French and English. The installer currently seems to default to English but is of course changeable to the users preferred language. by allowing the installer to suggest the users already indicted language (in the UEFI Setup) it could potentially remove a barrier for those users for whom English is not a first or second language. Should no language be detected in the bios, the current default would be acceptable.


Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable):


How reproducible:


Steps to Reproduce:
1.
2.
3.
Comment 1 Lewis Smith 2022-10-18 22:03:18 CEST
Ben, this is obscure. Several objections:

* "can allow the language used in the UEFI setup to be changed"
Seems to say it all.
* Not many people know how to get at their UEFI firmware, nor have the idea that it might offer a language choice, nor even that it exists.
* Is it possible that such a firmware language choice would offer a language not offered by the Installer?!
* "the default install language"
"The installer currently seems to default to English"
In what situation? Without experience of NetInstall, all the off-line media start with the language choice, which is used thereafter; so do not understand what you are fishing for. The opening question (from memory) "Choose your language"? If that is only in English which you do not understand, you have to feel your way to choose the language you want. Which users clearly manage.

[Aside: I have always been impressed that the Classic installer offers language names natively ; less impressed that the Live installer offers the languages in English. Should we bug this? Unfair for M9].

* That the Installer should mess in hope with UEFI firmware to discover this parameter looks a fiddly addition of doubtful value.

Or am I missing something?

CC: (none) => lewyssmith

Comment 2 Ben McMonagle 2022-10-18 23:07:38 CEST
hi Lewis,

Yes, Mageia installers  first step is to offer a language selection to proceed, and it is likely English. 
However, wouldn't it be nice to have that first step to offer Your First Language as default?. 

If you purchase a computer in an English First Language country, the likelihood of the UEFI BIOS is set to English is very high, and most people do not need to change / worry about it.

If you purchase an identical computer in a country that, for example,  has German as its First Language, the likelihood of its UEFI BIOS language being in German is likely very high.


This idea came about as I booted up a Mint Live system and of course, as Mint has no option to select a language before desktop presentation, everything is in English. I feel that this against the Linux *user is in control* philosophy. Mint expect all users to have more than a passing acquaintance with English.

As noted, my UEFI bios offers a second language, so I suspect that overseas (to me), overseas countries would have their Language as default in computer BIOS.
Comment 3 Ben McMonagle 2022-10-18 23:23:08 CEST
(In reply to Ben McMonagle from comment #2)
 
> However, wouldn't it be nice to have that first step to offer Your First
> Language as default?. 
> 

However, wouldn't it be nice to have that first step to offer Your First
Language as default, in your First Language.
Comment 4 Frank Griffin 2022-10-19 00:24:18 CEST
Since classic install has the language list as native language names, would it not be better to have the first panel for all the installs display these values for the languages supported by the boot medium involved, and allow the selection to be the language for the rest of the install ?

Assuming that non-English speakers would nevertheless recognize the name of their own language in such a list (if it's in there, since I gather not all of the boot media support all of the languages supported by classic install), such a display shouldn't need explanatory text in any language.  Find the official name of your language, click on it, and that's what you get.

Note that this would not prevent re-presenting the language list in a subsequent stage if the user wanted to choose "Multiple Languages".  The preselected one in that case would be the one originally selected.

CC: (none) => ftg

Comment 5 Ben McMonagle 2022-10-19 00:44:42 CEST
(In reply to Frank Griffin from comment #4)

> 
> Assuming that non-English speakers would nevertheless recognize the name of
> their own language in such a list (if it's in there, since I gather not all
> of the boot media support all of the languages supported by classic
> install), such a display shouldn't need explanatory text in any language. 
> Find the official name of your language, click on it, and that's what you
> get.
> 

it is just a suggestion to get the installer to present that first screen: "choose your language", in the likely First Language of the person installing. 

For a first time Linux user, they have already taken the first step  (and it is a big one), getting past a screen that is in a language you dont understand could be daunting.

The BIOS is likely already set for the users language, lets use it.

For English users this is not an issue, the first page is always in English. Does it HAVE to be?

going back to my Mint experience. Would you know how to start the install if the text on the unfamiliar icons was in Arabic? it would be a case of click and hope or use a second computer to access the internet and find the necessary info in your language.
Comment 6 Frank Griffin 2022-10-19 01:44:11 CEST
Well, that's the point.  If you display the languages in their native glyphs, they are immediately recognizable and do not require any extraneous text to say "pick your language" in any language.

This is already done on entertainment DVDs where the first thing you see is a panel that contains "English/Francais/(etc.)".  You pick one, and everything after that is in that language.
Comment 7 Lewis Smith 2022-10-19 11:00:23 CEST
While accepting the extremely slight advantage proposed, we agree that we are talking *only* about the very first 'choose language' installer screen. Whatever the minimal text is on that, it is very visual: drop-down or scrollable lists to hunt your language within. Quasi-universal.

I would want evidence that machines sold in any country offer an appropriate firmware language choice! Maybe Ben is right, and if you buy in Limpopoland your UEFI firmware will offer that. Don't believe. I happen to have a brand spanking new box, whose firmware has no language option.
Do not most if not all BIOS firmwares come from the USA?
Why does Ben's box offer French as a language choice? Canada in view, perhaps.

And I stand by my point that even if it does, most users will know nothing of the firmware; nor how to get at it. (Accepting that they might be forced to learn from somewhere if their machine came with Windows which they want to dual-boot, or get rid of: Secure Boot to disable).

Ben's comments about Mint are legitimate if I get it right: the whole installation in English? I happen just to have one to install, to see!
We do very well on this front, as do most other distros I imagine.
And what does Windows do? Does it offer a version per country? I had to factory re-install a Windows system recently, forget the first screen.

I still think this subtle touch is over the top, and that only 1 in 1000 would benefit; of whom they would all anyway understand enough English to cope with the language selection screen.
Comment 8 Lewis Smith 2023-06-02 20:44:14 CEST
Ben, can we drop this?
I hesitate to close it because of needing an unfriendly reason for doing so! But if necessary... You know we are overloaded to take on luxuries like this.
Comment 9 Ben McMonagle 2023-06-02 22:58:35 CEST
sure, it was a *nice to have*.

maybe someone  can resurrect it when they have time

Status: NEW => RESOLVED
Resolution: (none) => WONTFIX

Comment 10 Ben McMonagle 2023-06-03 05:26:08 CEST
Created attachment 13864 [details]
# dmidecode |more output

for reference for future use:

*Handle 0x0011, DMI type 13, 22 bytes*

gives language options in this hardware.
Comment 11 Dave Hodgins 2023-06-03 07:17:06 CEST
Interesting. My desktop and laptop systems both have American Megatrends Inc.
bios.
On the desktop ...
Handle 0x0035, DMI type 13, 22 bytes
BIOS Language Information
        Language Description Format: Long
        Installable Languages: 8
                en|US|iso8859-1
                fr|FR|iso8859-1
                es|ES|iso8859-1
                de|DE|iso8859-1
                ru|RU|iso8859-5
                zh|TW|unicode
                zh|CN|unicode
                ja|JP|unicode
        Currently Installed Language: en|US|iso8859-1
On the laptop
Handle 0x0033, DMI type 13, 22 bytes
BIOS Language Information
        Language Description Format: Long
        Installable Languages: 1
                en|US|iso8859-1
        Currently Installed Language: en|US|iso8859-1

My aarch64 rpi 4b does not have a language option shown by dmidecode.
So the logic would just be to use dmidecode |grep 'Currently Installed Language'
If not found, default to en_us.

Too late to change the installer for Mageia 9 though.

CC: (none) => davidwhodgins
Status: RESOLVED => REOPENED
Resolution: WONTFIX => (none)
Assignee: bugsquad => mageiatools

Comment 12 Ben McMonagle 2023-09-28 22:21:42 CEST
Created attachment 14013 [details]
simple script to print currently installed UEFI language
Ben McMonagle 2023-09-29 00:32:08 CEST

Attachment 14013 description: simple script to print currently installed UEFI languae => simple script to print currently installed UEFI language

Comment 13 Ben McMonagle 2023-09-29 00:34:56 CEST
Comment on attachment 14013 [details]
simple script to print currently installed UEFI language

changed the script!

Attachment 14013 is obsolete: 0 => 1

Comment 14 Ben McMonagle 2023-09-29 00:36:13 CEST
Created attachment 14014 [details]
simple script to output the UEFI bios language selection

updated the script
Comment 15 Ben McMonagle 2023-09-29 06:03:52 CEST
Created attachment 14015 [details]
probably a better script to recover the UEFI bios language

updated again

Attachment 14014 is obsolete: 0 => 1
Attachment 13864 is obsolete: 0 => 1

Comment 16 Ben McMonagle 2023-09-29 07:42:24 CEST
script to be run as root user

Note You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.