Seamonkey is by us called iceape.
But with Debian dropping the alternate naming we really should rename it back to seamonkey.
The distribution policy text used to also mention seamonkey.
Yes, we're aware of the historical issues, but Debian was the one that spearheaded the renaming of all of the Mozilla packages, and they've more recently determined that it's no longer an issue and renamed back to their upstream names. We should follow suit.
This bug was started because of complaints about Kompozer being being beyond hope (and to drop), and what to replace it with for HTML editing. Whence the suggestion for Iceape=SeaMonkey for this task. Except that I thought SeaMonkey was a suite including e-mail as well, while Iceape (which I use routinely) was just the browser componenet of that suite.
I also want to remind that we offer the long-standing Bluefish HTML editor, often installed out-of-the box. David suggested yet another one. That is nothing to do with package names; sorry!
I happen to have a bug 24021 open on Iceape, which might become relevant to this one.
I agree, let's do what debian did and remove iceape from the distro. I don't have time to port all firefox security updates and I don't expect anyone else to do this either (AFAICT upstream does not currently provide such security updates).
I've wondered for a long time why Mageia just gets the SeaMonkey source and then applies patches to rebrand it, instead of using the source as-is. I personally use upstream SeaMonkey, because I got tired of all the warnings about using an outdated version when using Mageia's Iceape.
Anyway, the future of SeaMonkey is quite uncertain. As of writing, the current version is 2.49.5 (based on Firefox 52), and they're working on SeaMonkey 2.53 (based on Firefox 56) and SeaMonkey 2.57 (based on Firefox 60), but due to Firefox constantly removing APIs and the small base of SeaMonkey developers (most of the developers have left), it takes a while to catch up and it's widely assumed (and almost admitted by the SeaMonkey developers) that 2.57.x will be the final version (or at the very best that post-2.57.x versions will be based on their fork of the Firefox 60 source code). <http://www.seamonkey-project.org/news#2019-09-04>
(In reply to Lewis Smith from comment #3)
> I thought
> SeaMonkey was a suite including e-mail as well, while Iceape (which I use
> routinely) was just the browser componenet of that suite.
Actually, the suite is called SeaMonkey and the browser component is called Navigator. Iceape is just Debian's (dropped) rebranding of SeaMonkey, like Iceweasel was their rebranding on Firefox, etc. (Iceape's browser component is still called Navigator.)
Yes, we should not keep a browser that isn't being maintained upstream and kept up to date with security fixes. Even our package maintainer said to drop it. I think the correct technical solution would be to have the firefox package in Cauldron obsolete iceape.
Pushed an update for Firefox to Obsolete Iceape.
(In reply to David Walser from comment #8)
> Yes, we should not keep a browser that isn't being maintained upstream and
> kept up to date with security fixes. Even our package maintainer said to
> drop it. I think the correct technical solution would be to have the
> firefox package in Cauldron obsolete iceape.
April 15, 2020
SeaMonkey 2.53.2 Beta 1 released
SeaMonkey 2.53.2 Beta 1 is now available for free download on the SeaMonkey website.
February 28, 2020
SeaMonkey 2.53.1 released
The SeaMonkey project is proud to present SeaMonkey 2.53.1: The new release of the all-in-one Internet suite is available for download now! 2.53.1 is our biggest release in a few years and incorporates many changes and fixes from the underlying platform code.
By what metric do you calculate it "isn't being maintained upstream"?
I've used the Seamonkey suite since early 2000, when it was called Netscape. I speak up, now, since I've used it for the bulk of my computing every day since: browsing, email, RSS, newsgroups, address book, and, yes, even the occasional web page editing.
As I understand this bug, there was an initiative at some point, probably Debian in origin, to rebrand Seamonkey as Iceape, due to some alleged licensing conflict. I don't know that any other bits of code were changed. When *even Debian* dropped their complaint, some, including me, wondered why go through the extra, now unnecessary, certainly, work to merely re-brand Seamonkey?
(In reply to Lewis Smith from comment #3)
> This bug was started because of complaints about Kompozer being being beyond
AFAICT, you are not the bug reporter and there is no mention of Kompozer until you assert this.
Again, I wonder about the rationale being used to justify decisions.
Anyway, I'm not likely to become the packager. Surely, for the time being, I can download the 64-bit Linux tarball and go on about my life, finding workarounds for "Your browser is not supported" roadblocks set up by ignorant web"masters" who are blinded by FUD. Where does FUD come from, Mommy? Nonetheless, there is value in accuracy and honesty. Such principles might apply, here. IIANM.;)
Christiaan mentioned in comment #5 that he doesn't have the time and we're already short on packagers as it is.
So unless somebody steps up and takes ownership of Seamonkey, I believe removing it from the distro is the best way forward.
People can, like you, download it from the website if they want to run it.
If the latest Seamonkey is based on an old version of Firefox then is quite old in terms of security enhancements, unless they have been back porting changes from current Firefox versions. For example has Seamonkey dropped support for the flawed TLS 1.0 and TLS 1.1? Has Seamonkey implemented support for TLS 1.3.
There are a bunch of other changes to do with security that are in recent releases of firefox. Recognition of various HTTP security related headers and so on which would need a long essay to explain. Browsers should support these even if there a badly secured web sites and apps out there.
Mozilla has some very nice documentation for those interested.
Package has been dropped.
(In reply to Rolf Pedersen from comment #10)
> (In reply to Lewis Smith from comment #3)
> > This bug was started because of complaints about Kompozer being being beyond
> > hope...
> AFAICT, you are not the bug reporter and there is no mention of Kompozer
> until you assert this.
I now wonder myself about this comment. My tenuous link was
https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=23628#c13 (the bug was for Kompozer)
which indicates an unspecified "recent qa-discuss thread". I have to guess that HTML editing was the issue there, and believing that IceApe can do that, I probably jumped on this bug for that.
I agree my comment is meaningless, totally enigmatic.... Perhaps it was aimed at another more relevant bug.
(In reply to Stig-Ørjan Smelror from comment #11)
> People can, like you, download it from the website if they want to run it.
Maybe a relevant note should be added to the errata of the next Mageia.
Something along the lines:
IceApe (Seamonkey) is no longer available in Mageia. Users can download and run the latest version from the www.seamonkey-project.org website.
A backup of the profiles folder MUST be taken in advance. Other precaution must also be taken due to major changes in the source code. See the seamonkey-project.org for more details.
To run Seamonkey, download the appropriate compressed file (tar.bz2); unpack it; and run the "seamonkey" executable file. For more information, see... https://www.seamonkey-project.org/doc/install-and-uninstall#install_linux
The installation description is needed, because, people like me, might find no rpm file and think they cannot install Seamonkey.
An example of root installation might also be added in the wiki of Mageia. And how to create a .desktop file for Seamonkey and where that file should be placed, so as to show up in all users window managers' menus.
Also, I have to say this, again, accusations are thrown against good software. It seems to have become a trend in this Bugzilla. It makes you wonder...
Is it a weakness of character? (blame the others so we can look good)
Is it hypocrisy, in order to justify the decision? (put them down before the execution)
Or are there other motives?
(In reply to nikos papadopoulos from comment #16)
> Also, I have to say this, again, accusations are thrown against good
> software. It seems to have become a trend in this Bugzilla.
This is unjustified. What other packages did you have in mind?
I routinely use IceApe, but accept the reasons for dropping it. There is a *lot* of uncertainty about its up-to-date-ness, and future.
It is always open to someone - you perhaps - to volunteer to maintain the software. The number of old bugs against it show it is quite well used.
FWIW I find Falkon the neatest alternative.
The rest is unkind, rather 'conspiracy theory'. Nobody has blamed anybody; weakness of character & hypocrisy do not enter into it. Can we not remain amicable?
(In reply to nikos papadopoulos from comment #15)
> The installation description is needed, because, people like me, might find
> no rpm file and think they cannot install Seamonkey.
It's easy to do:
1. Download the .tar.bz2 file (I do to ~/.local/lib64)
2. Extract it
3. Create a symlink to it in ~/.local/bin (ln -s ~/.local/lib64/seamonkey/seamonkey)
Alternatively, you can try out some of the packages on http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=seamonkey&submit=Search+... . I do that for packages that aren't yet in Mageia (like Pandoc, bug #17321), but it's trial and error to find one that will work.
> And how to create a .desktop file for Seamonkey and where that file should
> be placed, so as to show up in all users window managers' menus.
That would depend on the window manager being used. E.g. in OpenBox, you edit the ~/.config/openbox/menu.xml file (or use a GUI tool like obmenu), but it doesn't use a .desktop file at all.
Just made the wiki page...
Great, thanks :)