Bug 18972 - Mga 1 to 5 had tap-to-click enabled by default, but Mga6 uses libinput where it's turned off by default. There is no (easy) way to enable it in installer and in DMs
Summary: Mga 1 to 5 had tap-to-click enabled by default, but Mga6 uses libinput where ...
Status: NEW
Alias: None
Product: Mageia
Classification: Unclassified
Component: RPM Packages (show other bugs)
Version: Cauldron
Hardware: All Linux
Priority: High critical
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Base system maintainers
QA Contact:
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords: FOR_ERRATA6
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2016-07-17 22:53 CEST by Frank Griffin
Modified: 2018-03-31 17:00 CEST (History)
17 users (show)

See Also:
Source RPM: x11-driver-input-libinput
CVE:
Status comment:


Attachments
enables "Tapping" option (mga#18972) (762 bytes, patch)
2018-03-27 16:37 CEST, Thierry Vignaud
Details | Diff

Description Frank Griffin 2016-07-17 22:53:41 CEST
See https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/latest/tapping.html .

Upstream libinput seems to think that saving a few users from the unintended consequences of tap-to-click is worth disabling it by default for everyone.  I disagree.  MGA has had tap-to-click enabled since MGA1, and it is only disabled in MGA6 because we converted from the synaptics driver to libinput during the release cycle and libinput has a different default.

In most cases, the default can be easily changed by adding the following entry to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d as 10-touchpad.conf:

Section "InputClass"
   Identifier "MyTouchpad"
   MatchIsTouchpad "on"
   Driver "libinput"
   Option "Tapping" "on"
EndSection

I believe that if tap-to-click was desirable in MGA1-5, we ought to take steps to enable it in MGA6.  Affected components are (at least) the installer and the DMs, since, unlike the individual DEs, neither of these has any mechanism to allow the user to enable tap-to-click if he wants it.
Comment 1 Marja Van Waes 2016-07-18 07:14:01 CEST
(In reply to Frank Griffin from comment #0)

> 
> In most cases, the default can be easily changed by adding the following
> entry to /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d as 10-touchpad.conf:
> 
> Section "InputClass"
>    Identifier "MyTouchpad"
>    MatchIsTouchpad "on"
>    Driver "libinput"
>    Option "Tapping" "on"
> EndSection

You don't say that you tested that ;-) 
I assume you did and that it works as desired?

> 
> I believe that if tap-to-click was desirable in MGA1-5, we ought to take
> steps to enable it in MGA6. 

I'm certainly not the only one for whom the "tap-to-click" feature turned into a disaster.

   Did _lacking_ the "tap to click" feature lead to any disaster for you?
   If not: Does anything indicate that a disaster could happen?

CC'ing libinput packager, packaging team leaders and those of whom I've seen an opinion about tap-to-click.

(A solution where it is disabled by default on all systems that have "mouse" buttons, but enabled where "mouse" buttons are missing, would have my preference)

CC: (none) => davidwhodgins, ennael1, fundawang, marja11, nic, ozkyster, rverschelde, watersnowrock

Comment 2 Rémi Verschelde 2016-07-18 08:53:54 CEST
Given the various discussions that we had about this, I think the only consensual solution would be to edit the installer so that it proposes to enable or disable tab to click during the install or post-install step.

Based on this option, it would write or not the above-mentioned /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/10-touchpad.conf.
Comment 3 Rémi Verschelde 2016-07-20 12:32:06 CEST
Might be worth checking if the new libinput changes things regarding this issue:

tmb <tmb> 1.4.0-1.mga6:
+ Revision: 1042911
- 1.4.0 (improved tablet and touchpad support)
Comment 4 Frank Griffin 2016-07-20 14:34:05 CEST
@Marja I'm fine with disable by default as long as there's a way to enable it.  Yes, I did test the X11 directive; when present, tap-to-click is enabled for SDDM and disabled when it's not present.  I couldn't test the installer, as I didn't know how to add it in.  Oddly enough, it does NOT work for GDM, so the installer may still have a problem if this is being overridden by GTK.

@Remi The link at the top of this bug report has had its version updated to 1.4.0 and still says it's disabled by default.
Comment 5 Barry Jackson 2017-02-10 15:08:36 CET
I have just net-installed Mga6 plasma (all defaults) on two laptops.
Acer 5920
Lenovo Thinkpad T420

It was rather non-intuitive to have no taps working on the Acer during install. I can't recall whether it worked or not on the Thinkpad.

After reboot the tap-to-click feature works fine on the Thinkpad, but the Acer would not work at all, despite what appeared to be correct settings in systemsettings.
The Thinkpad has no /etc/X11/xorg.conf.d/*-touchpad.conf.

Adding the workaround from #1 (I actually  put it in xorg.conf by mistake) works fine and the Acer now responds to taps.

So it seems this is hardware dependant.

CC: (none) => zen25000

Comment 6 Frank Griffin 2017-02-10 15:21:49 CET
When you say "it worked fine on the Thinkpad" do you mean that on reboot it worked by default or that you were able to turn it on for Plasma ?

I was always able to turn it on in Plasma System Settings without using the workaround above.  But that had no effect on SDDM.

OpenSUSE enables tap-to-click in its installer, the DM, and GNOME by default.
Comment 7 Barry Jackson 2017-02-11 16:27:12 CET
(In reply to Frank Griffin from comment #6)
> When you say "it worked fine on the Thinkpad" do you mean that on reboot it
> worked by default or that you were able to turn it on for Plasma ?

I don't know for sure - I think it was on by default but as it was not an issue I really can't remember.
It was only when I could not make it work at all on the Acer that I found this bug report.
> 
> I was always able to turn it on in Plasma System Settings without using the
> workaround above.  But that had no effect on SDDM.

No - I can't get tap-to-click working in SDDM on either of them.

> 
> OpenSUSE enables tap-to-click in its installer, the DM, and GNOME by default.

I am currently net-installing Mga6 plasma on another Acer 7720g that I have just repaired, so I will pay close attention on this one. ;)
Comment 8 Donald 2017-02-12 04:07:46 CET
I have similar behavior on another lenovo. 

No taps during installation, or after reboot, but they work after changing systemsettings but not in sddm. 

While you can click with its track pad, it's about as accurate as me playing golf, so a highly frustrating experience. 

I feel that we should follow opensuse on this. It seems insane having a configuration that disables a key piece of hardware by default.
Comment 9 Marja Van Waes 2017-02-13 12:07:24 CET
(In reply to Frank Griffin from comment #0)
> See https://wayland.freedesktop.org/libinput/doc/latest/tapping.html .
> 
> Upstream libinput seems to think that saving a few users from the unintended
> consequences of tap-to-click is worth disabling it by default for everyone. 
> I disagree.  MGA has had tap-to-click enabled since MGA1, and it is only
> disabled in MGA6 because we converted from the synaptics driver to libinput
> during the release cycle and libinput has a different default.
> 

> 
> I believe that if tap-to-click was desirable in MGA1-5, we ought to take
> steps to enable it in MGA6.  Affected components are (at least) the
> installer and the DMs, since, unlike the individual DEs, neither of these
> has any mechanism to allow the user to enable tap-to-click if he wants it.

(In reply to Frank Griffin from comment #6)

> 
> OpenSUSE enables tap-to-click in its installer, the DM, and GNOME by default.

(In reply to Donald from comment #8)
> I have similar behavior on another lenovo. 
> 
> No taps during installation, or after reboot, but they work after changing
> systemsettings but not in sddm. 
> 
> While you can click with its track pad, it's about as accurate as me playing
> golf, so a highly frustrating experience. 
> 
> I feel that we should follow opensuse on this. It seems insane having a
> configuration that disables a key piece of hardware by default.

It is only since I've used such a touchpad that I fully understand the problem :-(

Assigning to maintainer, but CC'ing some committers in case fwang is unavailable

Summary: upstream libinput turns tap-to-click off by default => Mga 1 to 5 had tap-to-click enabled by default, but Mga6 uses libinput where it's turned off by default. There is no (easy) way to enable it in installer and in DMs
CC: (none) => jani.valimaa, thierry.vignaud, tmb
Priority: Normal => High
Assignee: bugsquad => fundawang
Severity: normal => major

Comment 10 Samuel Verschelde 2017-07-10 16:29:08 CEST
It might be good to add a note about this in the Errata, thus I'm adding the
FOR_ERRATA6 keyword.

Once added to https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_6_Errata please replace
FOR_ERRATA6 with IN_ERRATA6.

Keywords: (none) => FOR_ERRATA6

Bruno Cornec 2017-08-26 01:20:51 CEST

CC: (none) => bruno

Comment 11 Štefan Greno 2017-08-29 09:20:56 CEST
I have ever not done any disaster with tap-to-click on my HP laptop, but I miss it now, it is quite inconvenient for me now and badgering. I would prefer to have possibility to change it after an installation somewhere.

CC: (none) => greno

Comment 12 Morgan Leijström 2018-03-15 21:45:15 CET
Still valid.
Here, on a Thinkapd T60 that was installed mga5, then updated to mga6, tap to cklick is still enabled, but a fresh install on a Thinkpad T42 have no tap-to-click.

Someone who know details please add to errata

CC: (none) => fri

Comment 13 Frank Griffin 2018-03-16 00:50:20 CET
Somehow I don't think Funda Wang is following this...
Comment 14 Frank Griffin 2018-03-27 02:05:44 CEST
OK, can we get some resolution on this ?

So far, the only dissenting voice to reverting this (Marja) seems to have recanted, and several others have voted to re-enable this.

The installer has no provision for modifying the GUI as do the DEs.  So this either gets enabled there or disabled.  Which will it be ?

SDDM (and I don't know how many other DMs) has no provision for modifying the GUI as do the DEs.  So this either gets enabled there or disabled.  Which will it be ?

What exactly is the pushback to re-enabling this feature and from whom is it coming ?  There doesn't seem to be any dissent in this bug report, but version after version of stage2 gets pushed to cauldron with no resolution and version after version of Plasma/KDE/SDDM with the same.

What is the real issue here ?

Severity: major => critical

Comment 15 Thomas Backlund 2018-03-27 09:49:22 CEST
I dont see a real "push-back"... 

its seems more of a no-one have had time to implement it in installer/drakx tools
Comment 16 Thomas Backlund 2018-03-27 09:51:12 CEST
Meaning we could add it as defeault on in cauldron, rebuild the installer and watch the fallout...
Comment 17 Marja Van Waes 2018-03-27 11:41:12 CEST
Funda no longer maintains this package, guessing libinput counts as Base System package and re-assigning accordingly

Assignee: fundawang => basesystem

Comment 18 Thierry Vignaud 2018-03-27 16:35:11 CEST
Actually I've done most of the work on libinput for the 4 past years :-)
And the same for x11-driver-input-libinput which I imported.
libinput is not the culprit here, that would be x11-driver-input-libinput.

That said I don't think we want to alter the default behavior & behaves different ly from other distros.

As for DrakX, I guess we could enables this by default during the installer. But do most users actually want that?

Source RPM: libinput => x11-driver-input-libinput

Comment 19 Thierry Vignaud 2018-03-27 16:37:34 CEST
Created attachment 10064 [details]
enables "Tapping" option (mga#18972)

This *untested* patch would do that for DrakX installer
Comment 20 Frank Griffin 2018-03-27 17:36:22 CEST
(In reply to Thierry Vignaud from comment #18)
> That said I don't think we want to alter the default behavior & behaves
> different ly from other distros.

I'm no great expert on other distros, but from recent experience doing a SUSE install they have tap-to-click enabled in their installer and Windows has it enabled everywhere by default.  Based on the comments here, people just expect it to work.  Why would we want to break something that has worked in a consistent way through every version of MGA until someone at libinput decided they didn't like it ?
Comment 21 Barry Jackson 2018-03-27 17:46:21 CEST
+1

People are into tapping on phones, pads etc. and just expect it to work.
Comment 22 Donald 2018-03-27 17:53:34 CEST
Can we please re-enable tap to click everywhere, I don't understand why this would be disabled, especially with the prevalence of multitouch trackpads appearing now.
Comment 23 Thierry Vignaud 2018-03-30 16:21:11 CEST
Suse does have this patch:
https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/X11:XOrg/xf86-input-libinput/n_enable-tapping.patch?expand=1

I've no strong opinion on that front.
But I would prefer this to be discussed upstream with Peter Hutterer.
And I want to be sure this would not upset other laptop users.
Comment 24 José Jorge 2018-03-30 17:18:56 CEST
(In reply to Thierry Vignaud from comment #23)
> And I want to be sure this would not upset other laptop users.

No as a laptop user, I'd like this to be the default again. Yesterday a friend unused to computers tried a Plasma laptop for the first time, and it was the first behaviour I had to change : he tried to tap like on a mobile phone.

CC: (none) => lists.jjorge

Comment 25 Dave Hodgins 2018-03-30 17:51:33 CEST
As a lazy touch typist (lazy meaning I don't keep my wrists up in the air), I'm
one of the people who really dislikes having it enabled by default.

If the majority of people do want it enabled, I won't complain though.
Comment 26 Frank Griffin 2018-03-30 21:31:59 CEST
Well, it seems like overkill, but if people want a stage 1 prompt as to whether it ought to be enabled for the installer, that's OK with me.  

The SUSE patch, if enabled for the install and the built system, will enable tap-to-click for the entire system, including SDDM and other DMs and the DEs (unless they actively disable it).  That's fine with me, but just realize.

If there is a defensible reason to enable it for the installer but not the installed system, then the stage 1 prompt should offer both choices.

The problem with not enabling it for the installer is that it is the first interaction any new user has with MGA is the installer, and to have a basic piece of your hardware not work out of the box is really bad PR.
Comment 27 Neal Gompa 2018-03-31 16:29:02 CEST
(In reply to Thierry Vignaud from comment #23)
> Suse does have this patch:
> https://build.opensuse.org/package/view_file/X11:XOrg/xf86-input-libinput/
> n_enable-tapping.patch?expand=1
> 
> I've no strong opinion on that front.
> But I would prefer this to be discussed upstream with Peter Hutterer.
> And I want to be sure this would not upset other laptop users.

I personally prefer having tap-to-click, but I'd definitely want to see whether Peter would be okay with turning this behavior on by default rather than not having it on by default. If not, I think a reasonable compromise would be to have a query in the installer to turn it on.

CC: (none) => ngompa13

Comment 28 Morgan Leijström 2018-03-31 17:00:37 CEST
Old behavoir was tap-to-click
Various modern handheld devices have only tap-to-click
MSwindows have tap-to click as default too, i think.

So by both tradition and modern references to me it seem tap-to-click is the normal and expected behaviour.

One addition to complexity is that some modern touchpads can be set in bios for simple or advanced modes.  I had to set it to simple for it to work in installer, and then change it to advanced to get the advanced functions found in Plasma settings.

Note You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.