Description of problem: After installation i saw imediatly a disortion of the aspect of the fonts, specially in greek caracteres. I tried many things, with liberation fonts and 96dpi (i tried changing the settings many times: subpixel etc) To make the fonts aspect look as normal i installed the lib64freetype2 package from mandriva: You can see the screenshot, i had the same problem before https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=56825 https://qa.mandriva.com/show_bug.cgi?id=48346 http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=36173 I installed in my system (mageia) the mandriva package: [root@localhost dglent]# rpm -ivh --force lib64freetype6-2.3.12-1mdv2010.1.x86_64.rpm warning: lib64freetype6-2.3.12-1mdv2010.1.x86_64.rpm: Header V3 DSA signature: NOKEY, key ID 70771ff3 Preparing... ########################################### [100%] 1:lib64freetype6 ########################################### [100%] and the fonts became normal. There is a difference in the spec of mandriva and mageia of freetype2 ------------------------------------ Mandriva: %define build_bytecode_interpreter 0 %define build_subpixel 0 %define build_plf 0 %{?_with_plf: %global build_plf 1} %{?_with_bytecode_interpreter: %global build_bytecode_interpreter 1} %{?_with_subpixel: %global build_subpixel 1} %define name freetype2 %define version 2.3.12 %if %build_plf %define distsuffix plf %define build_subpixel 1 %define build_bytecode_interpreter 1 %endif --------------------------------------- Mageia: %define build_subpixel 0 %define build_plf 0 %{?_with_plf: %global build_plf 1} %{?_with_subpixel: %global build_subpixel 1} %define name freetype2 %define version 2.4.4 %if %build_plf %define distsuffix plf %define build_subpixel 1 %endif ------------------------------------------- It means that now the bytecode interpreter is enabled ? May be this create the distortion. Reproducible: Steps to Reproduce:
Created attachment 36 [details] Screenshot with the two aspects
i think that the last update is related to this * Fri Feb 25 2011 anssi <anssi> 2.4.4-4.mga1 + Revision: 59964 - enable autohinting for fonts without bytecode (patch from upstream)
(In reply to comment #2) > i think that the last update is related to this > > * Fri Feb 25 2011 anssi <anssi> 2.4.4-4.mga1 > + Revision: 59964 > - enable autohinting for fonts without bytecode (patch from upstream) Note really; IIUC, Liberation fonts have bytecode, so you still have to force autohinting when using Liberation or DejaVu... etc (I may be wrong though). This report can be closed? this is not a bug per se, some like fonts with bytecode interpreter enabled, some don't, as always how fonts look depends mostly on the eyes of the user.
Keywords: (none) => NEEDINFO
Yes it is ok for me. Just in case that someone is looking for the same behaviour, i added in the file ~/.fonts.conf the <match target="font"> <edit mode="assign" name="autohint"> <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> to force using the autohint. Thanks very much
I have the same problem in several installations of mageia (after clean install or upgrade). Fonts are really not as nice in mageia as in mandriva. It is especially visible in a Mageia VM run in a mandriva host, so that you can switch easily from one to the other and see the difference. I would vote for a higher priority for this bug so that fonts appear as pleasant in mageia than in mandriva for release 1.
CC: (none) => anssi.hannula, stormi
Looking at the screenshot of comment #1, I really prefer the fonts on the right, so this really is a matter of opinion and there is no easy solution to make everyone happy.
The fact is, I heard nobody complain about font problems in the past mandriva versions. Why change ? That, plus the fact that several people already said that fonts look worse in mageia than in mandriva should advise to treat the problem.
Moreover, there are probably real ways to treat this with an objective view, which is what we should try to do. However, I don't know how to do, does someone have solid knowledge about what the best practices are ?
The bytecode hinting was patented and therefore disabled in Mandriva packages of 2010.1 and earlier. The patents have since expired and therefore the upstream freetype2 now enables them at default, and this is also enabled in Mandriva 2011.0 / Cooker (and thus us when we imported freetype from Mdv), and upcoming Fedora 15. Debian and Ubuntu have always have this enabled. If you think the fonts look better in the above distributions, it is worth to look into the fontconfig configuration files if they have some different defaults than what we have, as indeed they have the bytecode hinting enabled as well.
(In reply to comment #5) > I have the same problem in several installations of mageia (after clean install > or upgrade). Fonts are really not as nice in mageia as in mandriva. It is > especially visible in a Mageia VM run in a mandriva host, so that you can > switch easily from one to the other and see the difference. > KDE4/QT4 apps or GTK2.0+ apps?
(In reply to comment #7) > The fact is, I heard nobody complain about font problems in the past mandriva > versions. I did hear complaints, a lot of them... > Why change ? That, plus the fact that several people already said > that fonts look worse in mageia than in mandriva should advise to treat the > problem. That's not a definitive measure, some others never voiced their opinion, i.e. either: 1) they don't see a problem with the way fonts look now 2) they think the way it looks now is better (In reply to comment #8) > Moreover, there are probably real ways to treat this with an objective view, > which is what we should try to do. However, I don't know how to do, does > someone have solid knowledge about what the best practices are ? There're no objective ways to treat this issue, everyone's eyes aren't the same, and so how fonts look differ from a person to another, from a monitor to another, from a resolution/DPI to another...
(In reply to comment #10) > (In reply to comment #5) > > I have the same problem in several installations of mageia (after clean install > > or upgrade). Fonts are really not as nice in mageia as in mandriva. It is > > especially visible in a Mageia VM run in a mandriva host, so that you can > > switch easily from one to the other and see the difference. > > > > KDE4/QT4 apps or GTK2.0+ apps? probably more visible in KDE4 apps, but GTK2.0+ apps may be concerned too. > (In reply to comment #8) > > Moreover, there are probably real ways to treat this with an objective view, > > which is what we should try to do. However, I don't know how to do, does > > someone have solid knowledge about what the best practices are ? > > There're no objective ways to treat this issue, everyone's eyes aren't the > same, and so how fonts look differ from a person to another, from a monitor to > another, from a resolution/DPI to another... The fact that it's complex and that perception can vary from one person to another doesn't mean that there isn't better ways than others. I don't know how Apple or Microsoft do in their latest systems, but fonts sure look better there than they look right now in my instances of Mageia. That's why I think that there may be best practices to follow, whatever they are. (the first one who answers "then install windows or get a mac" will be a foreseable off-topic person :)).
Fonts in vista and windows 7 are totally/hopelessly ugly on my monitor with 1920x1080 native resolution, so I don't think MS has got it right at all... I am not 100% sure, but I think this change in Cairo: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/cairo/commit/?id=7a023a62f7517ad0d54f4d59c99909fadcc05e82 may be affecting things too (notably in GTK apps more than in Qt4 apps), this change was shipped since cairo-1.9.10, what version of libcairo do you have in mdv? FWIW You could easily test by installing older libcairo from mdv where-fonts-look-better-to-you in Cauldron, AFAIK, it should work for testing.
The problem is nt solved with the above setting in the .fontconf ? What setting do you have for the fonts in the systemsetting: Do you use anti-aliasing ? (i use the system settings option) Do you set a DPI ? ( i use 96) Which font do you use ? Did you change the default size of the fonts ? Can you post a screenshot?
(In reply to comment #14) > The problem is not solved with the above setting in the .fontconf ? > yes, the tip in comment #4 gives me back something that is not as good as in mandriva (looks a little older and blurrier when comparing the two), but almost. However, my comment #5 about raising this bugs priority concerns the out-of-the-box experience. I know I can tweak my configuration as much as needed, but this is not everyone's case. > What setting do you have for the fonts in the systemsetting: > Do you use anti-aliasing ? (i use the system settings option) I think so (system default). > Do you set a DPI ? ( i use 96) No > Which font do you use ? Default font > Did you change the default size of the fonts ? On one computer yes, on the other no. > > Can you post a screenshot? Yes, I'll do it.
Created attachment 194 [details] Good looking fonts in Mandriva
Created attachment 195 [details] Bad looking fonts in Mageia (it could be worse, but I really find the mandriva screenshot nicer by far)
(In reply to comment #15) > > What setting do you have for the fonts in the systemsetting: > > Do you use anti-aliasing ? (i use the system settings option) > I think so (system default). > The output of 'xrdb -q' could show the current settings (and/or attach ~/.fonts.conf).. :)
Created attachment 196 [details] Mageia after tweaking ~/.fonts.conf according to comment #4 The best way to look at those 3 screenshots is to switch from one to the other so see the differences appear. In my opinion : - the mdv one is the nicer - the first mga one is bad. It looks like an old outdated computer system. - the second mga one is better, but if you compare it closely to the mdv one, you can see than this second mga screenshot has somewhat blurrier fonts. It makes me a little think about ink that spread too much around the characters (although it's not very visible).
I can see in the screenshots what you say, and you have right. To make them look better try to use Liberation fonts (that worked for my language characters, because in liberation the space between the greek characters is smaller https://bzattachment.mandriva.com/attachment.cgi?id=16348 but i dont see a such difference in latin characters) and increase the dpi to 96 I dont think that is a mageia - mandriva issue, if you see my first message i had already reported bugs in mandriva bugzilla for the same problem. and my settings (from xrdb -q) Xft.antialias: 1 Xft.dpi: 96 Xft.hinting: 1 Xft.hintstyle: hintfull Xft.rgba: rgb eg: i hope a developer finaly will see the difference or we will visit an oculist both of us. :D
(In reply to comment #18) > (In reply to comment #15) > > > > What setting do you have for the fonts in the systemsetting: > > > Do you use anti-aliasing ? (i use the system settings option) > > I think so (system default). > > > > The output of 'xrdb -q' could show the current settings (and/or attach > ~/.fonts.conf).. :) Ping.
Ahmad it is ok to close the report ? For the initial problem that i reported is solved https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175#c4
I've asked Samuel VERSCHELDE for .fonts.conf and xrdb -q output, nothing so far. Anssi's suggestion about improving the default fonts setup is till not totally probed.
Sorry for the delay, I still intend to provide the needed information. I discussed with my brother who has good knowledge of fonts matters, showing him the screenshots, here is the outcome : To begin with, he confirms there is no real bug. All is a matter of settings. The screenshot I find "bad" (see attachments) has a strong hinting. Characters are thinner because they are forced to be adjusted to the pixel grid. This is what can sometimes distort the characters. The screenshots I find "good" have no or little hinting, but has antialiasing on, which respects the characters form, but can appear a little blurry to some users. Quoting my brother : "Windows users will like strong hinting, Mac OS X users will consider that strong hinting is bad. The current tendancy in OSes is towards weak hinting and strong aliasing." I already stated where my preference is, finding the hinting too strong in the "bad" screenshot. I'll do a new test migration soon and provide the .fonts.conf and xrdb -q output as soon as possible if the fonts aspect still hurt my eyes :)
(In reply to comment #22) > Ahmad it is ok to close the report ? For the initial problem that i reported is > solved https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175#c4 You consider it solved altough you had to manually edit a config file ? What about other users ?
(In reply to comment #24) > Quoting my brother : > "Windows users will like strong hinting, Mac OS X users will consider that > strong hinting is bad. The current tendancy in OSes is towards weak hinting and > strong aliasing." Read : strong anti-aliasing, of course. (In reply to comment #24) > I already stated where my preference is, finding the hinting too strong in the > "bad" screenshot. (unfinished idea) I wanted to add : but this is not for me to decide. Should we close this bug or not, it would be good to reach a definitive decision about font hinting and anti-aliasing, because the current situation kind of appeared naturally without real decision (some patents went off, so we could activate hinting, but nothing guarantees that it's better with strong hinting than not :)).
(In reply to comment #25) > (In reply to comment #22) > > Ahmad it is ok to close the report ? For the initial problem that i reported is > > solved https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175#c4 > > You consider it solved altough you had to manually edit a config file ? What > about other users ? I understand more than anyone the fonts problem as i did many reports in the past. In this report the problem is 100% the bytecode interpreter. When i disable it the difference is like the day and the night and i have the correction immediately without even logout. Just restart each application. I asked Amhad if it is ok to close it because if your problem it is nt the same as this one, maybe deserves an own report, and it can nt exist one report for the fonts problem in general. My wish was to "push" every problem to be solved and this is the goal. Not against your problem but to make it solved. (don't forget that i spent a lot of time with these kind of problems and i can understand you) So, as Ahmad knows better i asked to him what it has to do with this report.
(In reply to comment #23) > I've asked Samuel VERSCHELDE for .fonts.conf and xrdb -q output Here it is : $ cat ~/.fonts.conf <?xml version="1.0"?><!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd"> <fontconfig> <match target="font"> <edit mode="assign" name="rgba"> <const>none</const> </edit> </match> <match target="font"> <edit mode="assign" name="hinting"> <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> <match target="font"> <edit mode="assign" name="hintstyle"> <const>hintmedium</const> </edit> </match> <match target="font"> <edit mode="assign" name="antialias"> <bool>true</bool> </edit> </match> </fontconfig>
Created attachment 423 [details] xrdb -q output
(In reply to comment #28) > > Here it is : > > > $ cat ~/.fonts.conf > <?xml version="1.0"?><!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd"> > <fontconfig> > <match target="font"> > <edit mode="assign" name="rgba"> > <const>none</const> > </edit> This means sub-pixel rendering is disabled altogether, depending on your preferences enabling this may improve fonts. You can either edit .fonts.conf or use the fonts kcm in systemsettings to enable it (Use anti-aliasing: Enabled -> Configure).
(In reply to comment #30) > (In reply to comment #28) > > > > Here it is : > > > > > > $ cat ~/.fonts.conf > > <?xml version="1.0"?><!DOCTYPE fontconfig SYSTEM "fonts.dtd"> > > <fontconfig> > > <match target="font"> > > <edit mode="assign" name="rgba"> > > <const>none</const> > > </edit> > > This means sub-pixel rendering is disabled altogether, depending on your > preferences enabling this may improve fonts. You can either edit .fonts.conf or > use the fonts kcm in systemsettings to enable it (Use anti-aliasing: Enabled -> > Configure). I tried this change, but I see not much difference (if there's a difference at all). I achieve something closer to what I had in Mandriva 2010.2 by following the change from comment #4, I don't know why.
"In terms of look and feel, our only quibbles are that Mageia has a thinner looking sans font on the desktop than Mandriva." http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/review/2076258/impressions-mageia-linux/page/4 It looks like the new default font settings choices as compared to old Mandriva 2010.2 what noticed and not liked.
The byte-code interpreter is enabled in freetype2 since 2.2.4 in almost all distros that use that version (unless they, as some have, had it enabled even before the patent(s) expired).
(In reply to comment #33) > The byte-code interpreter is enabled in freetype2 since 2.2.4 in almost all > distros that use that version (unless they, as some have, had it enabled even > before the patent(s) expired). Byte-code interpreter enabling is not the only thing that impacts font display, is it ? I'm trying to get used to those very sharp fonts we now have, but this is not a fatality, this is a choice : other fontconfig settings would give other results.
CC: (none) => patoukellerVersion: Cauldron => 1
Source RPM: (none) => freetype2
I changed the monitor from a 17" to 22" and the fonts became ugly and horrible. I tried all setting that exist in kde systemsettings, i could make them to look better but i have red points inside the fonts (screenshot attached)
Created attachment 720 [details] Screenshot to show the red points in the fonts
I changed the dynamic contrast to off and now all looks ok. In the screenshot 720 only me showed the red points in the fonts as it was an issue of my monitor settings (hp w2207h) Now the screenshot 720 looks ok with the changes in my monitor settings, so it is an obselete attachement
Comment on attachment 720 [details] Screenshot to show the red points in the fonts it was a monitor setting issue (i switched the dynamic contrast to OFF)
Attachment 720 is obsolete: 0 => 1
(In reply to comment #38) > it was a monitor setting issue (i switched the dynamic contrast to OFF) So is the problem solved?
CC: (none) => lists.jjorge
For me is solved since the post 4: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175#c4 But if you read the other comments, there are some issues with similar cases so Ahmad did nt close the report yet. However, if this bug is assigned to another person because the temporary unavailability of Ahmad, and wants to close it , i cannot decide for this; see also comment 27: https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=175#c27
I don't think there's a bug to solve, only default font settings that could be made different (some reviewers of Mageia 1 found the way fonts look not to their taste for example). I think the best is to close this bug report and let things as is, because the current state seems to please most people (or people have become accustomed to it), even if I'm not sure that it's the best settings we could have.
Status: NEW => RESOLVEDResolution: (none) => FIXED
A dialogue to enable/disable autohint http://pkgs.org/download/autohint-onoff