For rpmdrake to be new-user friendly, I think it shouldn't show the notification about the possibility to use 'urpme --auto-orphans'. That message is OK when using urpme from terminal, as logically users using the CLI are a bit more advanced. New users, however, will usually opt for using the GUI tools; display that message there is a bit dangerous, the various/many forum/ML posts about users system being wrecked after using that command line show that it's not exactly an option for new users; the most recurrent cause was: - user uninstall package A which he thinks he doesn't need - task-$DE{minimal,} depends on package A, so uninstalling A takes out the task-$DE package - users executes 'urpme --auto-orphans' and ends up with a borked system since his DE is gone - yes, it's indeed easy to Alt+Ctrl+F1, login as root, and urpmi task-$DE, but a new user doesn't know that Alt+Ctrl+F1 will take him to a virtual terminal I think this is a release_blocker, i.e. a decision should be made (hopefully to take the message out of the GUI) before Mageia's first official release. Thanks.
(And sorry for the typos... not enough sleep).
I think that this suggestion will receive unanimous support from those of us who have spent time in the Mandriva forums helping users.
CC: (none) => marcello.anni
I agree as well.
CC: (none) => andr55
Priority: release_blocker => NormalSeverity: normal => enhancement
@Thierry: FWIW, I still think this is a release_blocker, a decision needs to be made before Mageia 1, either leave that message (with fully knowing it has wrecked / will wreck-until-its-shortcomings-are-fixed, many systems out there, as users see it in the GUI and think "--auto-orphans is good for cleaning the system of useless packages") or remove it. Also it's not an enhancement request, this is a bug, IIUC the general rationale for rpmdrake is keeping is simple and leaving out all the advanced-users features/options, --auto-orphans is a feature for advanced users any which way I look it. Over & out.
That would need changes in urpmi too, which is a bit invasive at this stage
I agree that the current auto-orphans message -- and the function, as it is now implemented -- should be changed. And that it is effectively a bug. And that a complete correction is a bit involved. So maybe just changing the message, to something like : ------------------ "The following packages seem to be orphaned." ... (list of packages) ... You may want to consider removing the above packages. Please verify that you do not use these packages, or any packages that might be removed with them. You can verify the function of each package before removal." ---------------------- That is, changing the preceding and following messages. This is just a rough suggestion. Undoubtedly the message could be refined. In any case, just changing the message would be relatively quick to implement, and a lot better than the current "auto-orphans" message. Alternately, the routine printing the message could be just commented out for now ? (That is probably what I would do if I were familiar with the program.) We can always fix the auto-orphans function later. What do you think ? Ahmad ? Thierry ?
so, what is the status of this enchancement? can it be integrated for 1 release? it will be important for new users and could avoid a lot of issues...
Comment#5 still stands true.
i propose to workaround this issue changing the urpmi message. is it still possible? i'm sendind an e-mail also to 18n team to manage this possible change of translation. these are the messages that should be changed: #: ../urpm/orphans.pm:440 #, c-format msgid "" "The following package:\n" "%s\n" "is now orphaned, if you wish to remove it, you can use \"urpme --auto-orphans" "\"" msgid_plural "" "The following packages:\n" "%s\n" "are now orphaned, if you wish to remove them, you can use \"urpme --auto-" "orphans\"" msgstr[0] "" "Il seguente pacchetto:\n" "%s\n" "è ora orfano, se desideri rimuoverlo, puoi eseguire il comando \"urpme --" "auto-orphans\"" msgstr[1] "" "I seguenti pacchetti:\n" "%s\n" "sono ora orfani, se desideri rimuoverli, puoi eseguire il comando \"urpme --" "auto-orphans\"" i propose to change the message this way: "these packages are orphans. If you are an experienced user and you want to remove them, you can use "urpme --auto-orphans". Otherwise we discourage the use of this comand" thanks cheers, Marcello
As already said in posts, no such changes now, before the release. BTW it would require to get all translations ready.
it is only a string change, nothing relevant that could create issues and bugs. And if the i18n team will manage to do this (at least for most used languages) will you approve this? thanks cheers, Marcello
Maybe all mails were not clear enough... It will not happen now. As an update after release only
can we have it now?
now that update process is started, can we start to think about fixing it? as it is a mandriva long-time bug, i think that fixing it it will be a good signal given to the community. thanks cheers, Marcello
Hi, why not to create a corresponding option (in a form of a button) in the appropriate place of MCC (maybe, somewhere by the package list)? It might call a menu with a short description and waring, if necessary : Remove all the orphaned packages? Yes/No. One more thing that I'd suggest to think about is a small tool within MCC that would create and maintain the list of newly installed and updated packages with dates. One can do of course something like "rpm -qa --last | head", but it would be great to have this option with GUI. Thank you.
CC: (none) => schlecht
Only problem is that up to now, packages identified as orphans can very easily be packages that are be useful to keep. The only criteria seems to be that it was installed as a requirement of another package. So for example, if a task package is installed, and then uninstalled in order to remove one of the referenced packages, all the other packages installed with the task package are tagged as orphans. Not a good idea. And untagging a package as an orphan requires using a command-line tool. Cumbersome if want to untag several (or many) packages. It would be better if the orphan status could be managed by graphic tools.
Also, when the list of orphan packages is presented in a window by rpmdrake, to continue the window must be closed. It would be better if rpmdrake would continue automatically, and let the user close the window later. That would facilitate the user selectively removing suggested orphans. If would be useful if the user could select non-orphans from the graphic interface at this point as well.
Status: NEW => ASSIGNED
Why is this bug tagged as a simple enhancement? I think it's severity is major, if not release_blocker for Mga2 too. There are some cases of users who totally broke their system down with this command (at least for an end-user's point of vue, I agree that a simple urpmi <what was removed> in tty1 could do the trick), and the people who are knowledgeable enough to use this command (and check wether the listed packages can be uninstalled with no risk) do know it.
CC: (none) => rverschelde
Fixed in SVN. Please don't joke about release_blocker severity...
Status: ASSIGNED => RESOLVEDResolution: (none) => FIXED
CC: andre999 => andre999mga
i'm sorry, what has changed exactely? thanks
To clean this up, i think first step would be to write up and discuss a clear document of how it really *should* work. https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12567
CC: (none) => fri
See Also: (none) => https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12567
CC: andr55 => (none)
Blocks: (none) => 14594
This is still a bug, 5 years later. I have no idea why any message about orphans is there either in the GDI or the CLI. And orphan is not something bad, and to suggest that they should be removed is a gross disservice to the user. It confuses them to absolutely no purpose, and destroys systems. Please get rid of the suggestion that orphaned files should be removed from the output of urpme
Status: RESOLVED => REOPENEDCC: (none) => unruhResolution: FIXED => (none)
we have a new one: bug 14594
Status: REOPENED => RESOLVEDSee Also: (none) => https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=14594Resolution: (none) => OLD