Bug 6493 - "simplew" Should be Granted a Commit Bit
Summary: "simplew" Should be Granted a Commit Bit
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Alias: None
Product: Infrastructure
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Account request (show other bugs)
Version: unspecified
Hardware: All Linux
Priority: Normal normal
Target Milestone: ---
Assignee: Sysadmin Team
QA Contact:
URL:
Whiteboard:
Keywords:
Depends on:
Blocks:
 
Reported: 2012-06-17 21:33 CEST by Shlomi Fish
Modified: 2014-05-08 18:04 CEST (History)
12 users (show)

See Also:
Source RPM:
CVE:
Status comment:


Attachments

Description Shlomi Fish 2012-06-17 21:33:18 CEST
Hi all,

simplew is my apprentice and I'd like to give him a commit bit for the mgarepo repository. His Mageia identity is "simplew".

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish
Comment 1 Shlomi Fish 2012-06-21 00:29:37 CEST
Hi all,

can you perform this request? Also see the older https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=6471 which should be done.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish
Comment 2 Shlomi Fish 2012-06-24 16:14:21 CEST
Hi, please tend to this request. We've been waiting for a week.

Regards,

-- Shlomi Fish
Comment 3 Nicolas Vigier 2012-06-24 16:55:35 CEST
Considering that :
- simplew is suspected to be Zé/zemo/mmodem. We can see him join #kde or #mageia-dev as zemo :
  21:46 -!- simplew [~zemo@vs2-84-91-53-203.netvisao.pt] has joined #mageia-dev
  19:46.13	*** join/#kde simplew (~zemo@vs2-84-91-53-203.netvisao.pt) ( in logs from http://infobot.rikers.org/%23kde/20120609.html.gz )
- zemo had a mageia packager account in the past, and had his account removed after various problems
- zemo had a mandriva account and created various problems with mandriva kde maintainer, and I think also had his account removed

I'm not sure that we should give him an account again if we want to avoid the same problems. Or we should first ask the people who had problems with him in the past what they think about this.

CC: (none) => boklm

Comment 4 Sander Lepik 2012-06-24 17:41:04 CEST
Was simplew the one who caused libbsd discussion in the dev ml? That problem is still not fixed.

Answers like "Its needed for bumblebee." doesn't cut it for me.

If he also turns out to be zemo then i wouldn't grant those rights. We would have more problems than we need at the moment..

CC: (none) => sander.lepik

Comment 5 Anne Nicolas 2012-06-24 20:10:43 CEST
We will not give him these rights. He left some months ago after some discussions because of troubles he caused in i18n and packagers team. It seems in last discussions he did not change his way of doing. Managing this situation was a pain because it's always hard to remove a contributer. But still it's needed.

So closing now this bug

Status: NEW => RESOLVED
CC: (none) => ennael1
Resolution: (none) => WONTFIX

Comment 6 Simple 2012-06-24 21:18:26 CEST
I have told you im Pedro and have explained that my cousin have been teaching several stuff and when he leaves in irc (where sometimes we chat and discuss with other users) i change to my nick and that why appears his sets, because he uses his nick and identification, he doesnt hide and neither i. What appears to me is that your simply burning me just because you now know that Ze is my cousin. Else you had at least tried to speak with someone who knows us both like i pointed you.

Status: RESOLVED => UNCONFIRMED
CC: (none) => simplew8
Resolution: WONTFIX => (none)
Ever confirmed: 1 => 0

Comment 7 Manuel Hiebel 2012-06-24 22:18:22 CEST
beside comment 4, about the lib, If I read the logs of #mageia-mentoring  the mentality seems no the same as zemo so I'am not agree with Olivier or Anne.
Romain d'Alverny 2012-06-24 23:24:27 CEST

CC: (none) => rdalverny

Comment 8 Marja Van Waes 2012-06-24 23:27:01 CEST
(In reply to comment #6)
> What appears to
> me is that your simply burning me just because you now know that Ze is my
> cousin. 

Hi Simplew,

I would never ever consider becoming a Mageia packager if my dear cousin's
account had been removed.

Thinking that you want to become a Mageia packager while you know what happened
to Zé gives some kind of short circuit in my head, it is simply something I
can't imagine at all, sorry :(

Not being able to understand it, makes it frightening.

If you already explained why you joined Mageia in spite of what happened to Zé,
can you then please give a link to it?

Cheers,
marja

CC: (none) => marja11

Comment 9 Frank Griffin 2012-06-25 00:25:06 CEST
As not-a-packager, I probably don't have any real status to comment on this, but...

1) As long as this discussion is being held in a bug report, could we have a synopsis of Ze's crimes ?  Most people reading this probably don't follow #irc.

2) If Simple claims not be Ze (and, possibly, even if he is), can it be determined from the quality of the work he submitted as Simple ?  If the work is satisfactory, i.e. contains none of the offenses of which Ze was guilty, possibly this can be overlooked until/unless he offends again.  Or were the offenses so horrendous that this shouldn't even be considered ?

CC: (none) => ftg

Comment 10 andré blais 2012-06-25 01:05:14 CEST
The problem was Zé's disruptive and conflictual approach, often making changes to other's work without consultation.
It was like a state of war.
Intelligent people can have disagreements, but eventually we have to accept compromises in the interest of the Mageia community.
We tried to reason with him, but it didn't work.
We didn't have much choice then.

Unfortunately, Simplew gives every indication of behaving the same way, as well as seeming to be the same person by his connections on irc.

Note that Zé wasn't the first to have problems adapting.  At least one other left of his own accord.  And every time the community has done its' best to accommodate the contributor.

@Frank
Maybe if he contributes like yourself and a number of others for a time, he could be forgiven.  As you show, one doesn't have to be a packager to make positive contributions.

My 2 cents

CC: (none) => andre999mga

Comment 11 Sander Lepik 2012-06-25 01:17:47 CEST
(In reply to comment #6)
> I have told you im Pedro and have explained that my cousin have been teaching
> several stuff and when he leaves in irc (where sometimes we chat and discuss
> with other users) i change to my nick and that why appears his sets, because he
> uses his nick and identification, he doesnt hide and neither i. What appears to
> me is that your simply burning me just because you now know that Ze is my
> cousin. Else you had at least tried to speak with someone who knows us both
> like i pointed you.

Well, i still wouldn't give any rights yet as i don't see you being ready.
I would better see your contribution as patches at the moment. If you really aren't Ze then it shouldn't be a problem for you.

(Tho' if he is using your computer then why would he change _your_ username that you can't change back?)

I have had problems in local community with similar guy who changed (user)names and came back to troll around, so i'm cautious here..
Comment 12 Marja Van Waes 2012-06-25 01:30:30 CEST
@ Simplew

How much English did you learn since May 2nd, 2012 ?

I saw in a Debian log that you depended on Google Translate to be able to
discuss on IRC, and that your cousin came to help you.
http://purl.rikers.org/%23debian/20120502.html.gz

However, the next day you got kicked out of the channel. I'm sure "your" last
words before you got kicked out weren't a Google translation.
http://purl.rikers.org/%23debian/20120503.html.gz

Were you aware that the people in that channel were already very irritated
before "your" last words? 

If you don't speak enough English to recognise irritation, then I think it
would be good to learn more English before becoming a packager.
Comment 13 Nicolas Vigier 2012-06-25 01:55:54 CEST
(In reply to comment #6)
> I have told you im Pedro and have explained that my cousin have been teaching
> several stuff and when he leaves in irc (where sometimes we chat and discuss
> with other users) i change to my nick and that why appears his sets, because he
> uses his nick and identification, he doesnt hide and neither i. What appears to
> me is that your simply burning me just because you now know that Ze is my
> cousin. Else you had at least tried to speak with someone who knows us both
> like i pointed you.

Exactly the kind of comment we could expect from Zé. IMHO we shouldn't give commit rights to someone lying about his identity, especially when he had his account removed before.

Or we should expect the same kind of discussion as this one about each of his commits, except we'll be wasting time reverting/unreverting/rereverting commits instead of closing/reopening/reclosing a bug.

Status: UNCONFIRMED => RESOLVED
Resolution: (none) => INVALID

Comment 14 Simple 2012-06-25 10:33:14 CEST
Im causing too much noiseand i never wanted this.
Ill try to expain some confusions, my name is Pedro Gomes, and i was more a Windows user but i always got influenced with my cousin so i also had linux installed in my machine. First i started with Mandriva like my cousin, but i also tried other distros like Fedora, Opensuse and Debian and the ones i like more were Opensuse and Mandriva, but with Mandriva started appearing several problems manly with the drak tools, so i decided to try Mageia.
I already knew that Ze had left Mandriva but i didnt knew about his experience in Mageia, so i installed Mageia and i liked the project.
I also saw the packages my cousin made and i also wanted to do like him, to learn all those skills.
So i asked his help and the first thing he told me when he knew i was in Mageia was to move distro, but i insisted in using Mageia, and still he helped me.
The confusion starts from this point, since when we were in my home, sometimes there were some doubts and we used irc to clarify some questions, and several times i was already connected as simplew and we both were talking under the same nick, also other times he started in irc as zemo and when he left my home then i changed back to my nick and was from that point that people started to see simples with ID zemo since several times i forgot to identify, or would simply identify instead reconnect as simplew.
When my cousin brought his computer we were talking with different nicknames, me with simplew and him with zemo,and we did talked with other persons, we never hide anything, and neither my cousin ever tried to be me.

So please dont say im my cousin, we are 2 different persons, and i insisted in continuing in Mageia even though my cousin was against. I liked this project and thats why i  started contributing and learning howto package, but i never thought i would create all this confusion, i understand that exist reasons you dont like my cousin but i can assure that he also doesnt want to be related with Mageia.
Jani Välimaa 2012-06-25 21:06:00 CEST

CC: (none) => jani.valimaa

Comment 15 Simple 2012-06-26 11:13:59 CEST
I have told Boklm to ask a person thats a long time Qt and KDE developer that knew us both, and i did knew through my cousin, its a person beyond doubt and would tell him who is Ze and who am i, but like i thought, Boklm appears to be paranoid about this and doesnt admit he can be totally wrong, or will not admit that a Ze cousin could have commit permissions in Mageia.

Seams my cousin was right after all when he said that i should not use Mageia, seams mageia developers dont admit someone related to Ze can be part of the distro.
Comment 16 Marja Van Waes 2012-06-26 12:14:42 CEST
Hi Pedro,

Even though I'm convinced that you and Zé are two different persons, I'm *not* convinced that simplew is always you. 

May 2nd 2012, simplew had problems understanding and writing English and his cousin came to help him:

16:58.27	simplew	nvz: undesrandt not
16:58.36	nvz	simplew: what is your native language?

17:02.15	simplew	playing me with

17:02.45	simplew	nice not

17:03.13	simplew	nice is not
17:03.19	themill	simplew: I don't think anyone's sure what you're asking. Is there another language that you'd be more comfortable seeking help in? Debian has channels in many other languages.

17:04.18	khaktoos	I'm not sure what you're asking, too
17:04.21	simplew	i download thestable now

17:04.58	simplew	thanks the help
17:05.17	nvz	just make sure you hold your horses when downloading the stable.. they may not like it

17:07.01	simplew	nvz: why talking the horses?
17:07.45	simplew	i see message in translate google

17:09.49	simplew	my cousin doesnt speak english very well, but im helping him now, thank you guys

It is really nice of Zé that he came to help you and that he still helps you, but for us that is a problem.

We'd like to be sure, when simplew gets commit rights, that only Pedro uses them and not Zé.

Besides, I have another concern:

Can you please look at the Debian log of May 3rd again 
http://purl.rikers.org/%23debian/20120503.html.gz
and tell me whether you can see now that the guys answering simplew's questions had gotten irritated long before simplew was kicked out of the channel?
Comment 17 Simple 2012-06-26 13:22:19 CEST
Thank you Marja, finally someone that believes im Pedro.

Yes i had some problems understanding english at some point, but now i can understand much better also thanks to my cousin, but answering to your question, my cousin never entered or needed any of my accounts for any purpose.
If i had a mageia account with commit rights i would never let anyone access it, but Ze would never want some like that, since he doesnt want to have anything to do with Mageia, he was always against me using it.
The only thing we both used was the IRC to clarify some doubts.

And thank you again for your intervention that can help to clarify this terrible confusion :)
Comment 18 Sander Lepik 2012-06-26 14:29:59 CEST
As i already said before, i have nothing against it if you first submit your contributions as patches. Then we'll see if there is something useful for us or not and can you be part of the people who have commit rights.

It shouldn't be a problem for you. But if it is then i'm not sure what is your goal here.

So long your arguments sound like Ze's.
Comment 19 Philippe Didier 2012-06-26 14:43:31 CEST
(In reply to comment #17)
> Thank you Marja, finally someone that believes im Pedro.
> 
> Yes i had some problems understanding english at some point, but now i can
> understand much better 



Is one month really enough to improve English reading and writing this way ?

or
Is there any robot able to help translation this way ?

Is it a robot problem that makes discuss with simplew ending the same way as with Zé, using same kind of arguments and insults ?

> Boklm appears to be paranoid (comment #15)

I can see, here, with you, Pedro, (and in Debian irc too, about KDE again !!!) the beginning of the same insane process that led to never-ending conflicts with Zé in Mageia, in Mandriva... 

Do you understand why it is hard to trust in you ?

Can't you understand we may think you are Zé's Trojan ? (if you need his help for translation, and if he teaches you... as you said)

CC: (none) => philippedidier

Comment 20 Simple 2012-06-26 15:14:41 CEST
When i have more time to read and write, i dont give errors like i do when writing in IRC, here i have a spell checker that i dont have in the irc client.
I knew english but not as i now know.

I dont understand why you continue saying im Ze, when you see my cousin intervention in another channel that its not related with mageia, and i also dont understand like behave like Ze.
And as far as i remember i havent been offending no one, im now being persecuted by some because im Ze's cousin.
So far i have been doing some packages and some fixes that were submitted by my mentor, and i also have been asking help, if i was Ze i wouldnt need to ask for help, for what i see he knows all about packaging, and theres several stuff i have been asking help in mageia irc channels and to my mentor, for example i dont know about %triggers, when to use update-alternatives, or %ghost, etc.

Regardless of what I say there is always something for which to pick.
Comment 21 Simple 2012-06-26 15:47:16 CEST
In answer to comment #19:

Philippe you are joking and being offensive because someone doesnt know english that well and because uses tools to help writing in english?
You go to mageia devel mailing list pasting what was wrote here and make fun with it, thats being mean, that should never be a reason to joke or offend anyone.

I just hope that in your life you dont see anyone take advantage of some situation to joke and offend you.
Comment 22 Marja Van Waes 2012-06-26 16:31:46 CEST
@ Pedro

I believe you.

For me that is easy, I don't have the experiences the others have. I don't have
the fear to get into the same kind of conflicts as with Zé again, because I
only witnessed a very small part of one of those conflicts.

We are designed to avoid situations that got us into trouble before, we are
designed to get frightened of things that are similar. That is controlled by a
part of our brain we have in common with many animals. We can't turn it off.

You know and understand that you remind many of us of the conflicts there were
with Zé.

Giving you commit rights now would make the fear in too many of us grow out of
proportion. That would be very damaging for everyone, including for you.

The only solution is for you to continue being a padawan without commit rights,
let your mentor check your patches, and be *twice* as careful and wise as anyone
else while communicating, until the fear in others has been replaced by trust

That is hard and it will take long.

I hope you have the strength and motivation to accept this solution.

Cheers,
marja
Comment 23 Philippe Didier 2012-06-26 18:02:25 CEST
(In reply to comment #21)
> In answer to comment #19:
> 
> Philippe you are joking and being offensive because someone doesnt know english
> that well and because uses tools to help writing in english?
> You go to mageia devel mailing list pasting what was wrote here and make fun
> with it, thats being mean, that should never be a reason to joke or offend
> anyone.
> 
> I just hope that in your life you dont see anyone take advantage of some
> situation to joke and offend you.

@ Pedro

I don't want to offense anyone who doesn't know English very well !!!

I only was surprised by some huge differences of your English in different places, that can't be explained only by the use of tools (and that you explained by Zé's help), and was surprised by such quick improvements !

I'm joking about "Google translate" who sometimes gives funny misinterpretations
(I remember some bad translations and misunderstanding in Mandriva's English forum about posts in French one...) and can't build correct sentences like your last ones.


I tried to explain my wrong posting in mageia devel mailing list (it was not intentional ...)

I'm a little old... and have some experience with guys that come through the window when you have sent them out through the door... that makes me cautious.
(not paranoid...) 

Zé's past behaviour led us to prudence, doubt, anger. 


Marja summarized it well in comment 22


It's really a sad story... but if you are sincere and honest, it's a shame to have been offending you... and I deeply apologize ! 
It's really pathetic that you are splashed by something you didn't know and you don't approve ! 

The real culprit is the one that uses your identity as simplew to insult people on irc (asshole ... stubborn ...) and, so doing, dishonors you and gives you bad reputation !



Wait and see !
Comment 24 Simple 2012-06-26 20:30:32 CEST
Whats happening is that you all see im Pedro but i continue burned.

Im accused of being another person, and i think you all saw that im Pedro and i have not done anything wrong, its not fair being treated this way just because one thought i was another person, just hope boklm can now understand what happened.

I can understand the reasons that lead to this confusion and i have been trying to clarify them, in which im thankful to Marja showing that log where we can see my cousin talking, so should i pay for some i didnt do?

In this bug report my mentor is only asking a commit bit, so i could only commit in the svn repository and would not be able to submit packages.

answering to Phillipe comment #23:
About what was said in #debian was me, theres no reason to think otherwise, and i got banned from off-topic channel because i asked help in it, being an off-topic channel people should be able to ask about any matter, so i got back to #debian and said what i thought about who baned me without a reason for it, and i think thats only a human reaction.
Comment 25 Marja Van Waes 2012-06-30 12:14:16 CEST
About improving on English in a very short time:

I know that I can forget a language very fast when I don't use it, but when I really start using it again, so at least on a daily basis, it comes back very fast, too.

When I lived in Portugal, Portugal was much more England-oriented than Spain-oriented. Almost all Portuguese I knew had learned English in school.

About some similarities between Pedro and Zé:

They come from the same culture. We are not surprised that our German contributors are less playful than our French contributors, and that there are more remarkable diffences between them.
Comment 26 Marja Van Waes 2012-06-30 13:27:23 CEST
@ Pedro,

Comment 25 doesn't mean I think it would be a good idea to give you commit rights now: I think that would harm you because too many people would be watching every move you make.

There are many contributors who don't have commit rights (albeit for other reasons).

Manuel is one of the most important contributors we have, I can't remember one day in the past 10 months that he didn't contribute to Mageia. Yet he still couldn't commit a patch for something like https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=226#c32 two days ago.

So you're in very good company ;)
Comment 27 Florian Hubold 2012-07-28 19:16:06 CEST
Accusations and language-skills put aside for a moment ...

IMHO Shlomi should have the last words here. If he's OK with accepting commits as patches, then the mentoring process should continue, and this bugreport should be reopened after it's clear that Pedro is Pedro and nobody else will use his account. Remember, for others like Maarten or me it took nearly a year to get commit rights, so it would help to be a bit more patient.

I can understand that boklm has valid points and some paranoia is quite sane in his role as sysadmin and comprehensible to me, but also the others like Sander, Marja or Pedro himself have valid points. This should be reinvestigated after some more mentoring.

CC: (none) => doktor5000

Comment 28 andré blais 2012-07-29 03:34:58 CEST
+1
Note that Pedro has been contributing very positively on the dev list.
Pascal Terjan 2012-08-22 21:58:41 CEST

Status: RESOLVED => REOPENED
CC: (none) => pterjan
Resolution: INVALID => (none)
Ever confirmed: 0 => 1

Comment 29 Pascal Terjan 2012-08-22 22:13:39 CEST
Account upgraded

Status: REOPENED => RESOLVED
Resolution: (none) => FIXED

Nicolas Vigier 2014-05-08 18:04:13 CEST

CC: boklm => (none)


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