This is just a big recommendation. Especially because auto-orphans still barely works properly. After a liveCD installation it'll often be recommending you remove critical X11 components because they have nothing depending on them. Which is a mistake, as it hosed one of my installs both with mandriva and Mageia recently. Because of this, I'd say notifying the user of the dangerous of blindly trusting it. Just in case we have converts from the debian-verse where auto-remove is a very popular, and functional, package. They might attempt to use auto-orphan the same way. Which, as mentioned previously, can cause alot of troubles given the way auto-orphan can sometimes want to remove critical OS pieces.
>After a liveCD installation it'll often be recommending you >remove critical X11 components because they have nothing depending on them. Are you sure of that ? I have *never* seen (personally/forum/bugzilla/ml/...) urpme asking for removing the x11 package
Component: Release (media or process) => RPM PackagesSource RPM: (none) => urpmi
Indeed. You need to really be a heavy customizer like me, but it does happen. It won't ask to remove X11 itself, but packages, portions of it, and even drivers. For instance on an earlier install it had me remove the wireless driver my card needed to function.
Just note when I say heavy customizer I mean I've done customizations like installing different kernels through urpmi, and adding dkms rather than the prepackaged nvidia drivers and the like (nonfree stuff, mostly). However, I also install and uninstall non gui packages. So I'll admit I'm a little more intensive on my system than a standard user. I'm actually going to see if I can get auto orphans to misbehave at all in a little bit. I'm going to install the gnome 3.0 version, install the xfce packages, and remove gnome. I'll see if I can get any of the critical packages like my wireless card to pop up again. (the wireless card may have been because I believe I had installed the tmb kernel and removed the older kernel-desktop).
Already found it. Immediately after installing, updating, rebooting, and running urpme --auto-orphans I'm asked to remove these packages: [root@localhost ~]# urpme --auto-orphans writing /var/lib/rpm/installed-through-deps.list To satisfy dependencies, the following 49 packages will be removed (116MB): (orphan packages) autocorr-de-3.5.3.2-1.mga2.noarch autocorr-es-3.5.3.2-1.mga2.noarch autocorr-fr-3.5.3.2-1.mga2.noarch autocorr-it-3.5.3.2-1.mga2.noarch autocorr-nl-3.5.3.2-1.mga2.noarch autocorr-sl-3.5.3.2-1.mga2.noarch autocorr-tr-3.5.3.2-1.mga2.noarch fonts-ttf-freefont-20090104-5.mga2.noarch hyphen-de-0.20060120-1.mga1.noarch hyphen-el-0.20051018-1.mga1.noarch hyphen-es-0.20040810-1.mga1.noarch hyphen-fr-2.0-1.mga1.noarch hyphen-it-0.20071127-1.mga1.noarch hyphen-nl-0.20050617-1.mga1.noarch hyphen-sl-0.20070127-1.mga1.noarch kernel-desktop-3.3.4-1.mga2-1-1.mga2.x86_64 kernel-firmware-nonfree-20120421-3.mga2.nonfree.noarch kpartx-0.4.9-1.mga2.x86_64 lib64acr38u0-1.7.10-2.mga1.x86_64 lib64dmraid1-1.0.0-0.rc16.9.mga2.x86_64 lib64gegl0.1_0-0.1.8-1.mga2.x86_64 lib64lo10k10-1.0.25-1.mga2.x86_64 lib64lvm2app2.2-2.02.95-1.mga2.x86_64 lib64pulsecommon1.99-1.99.2-1.mga2.x86_64 lib64pulsecore1.99-1.99.2-1.mga2.x86_64 mythes-de-0.20090708.1-5.mga1.noarch mythes-el-0.20070412.1-7.mga1.noarch mythes-es-0.20101002.1-2.mga1.noarch mythes-fr-2.2.2-2.mga1.noarch mythes-it-2.0.9l-6.mga1.noarch mythes-nl-0.20101221.1-2.mga1.noarch mythes-sl-0.20101221.1-2.mga1.noarch nvidia-current-kernel-3.3.4-desktop-1.mga2-295.40-3.mga2.nonfree.x86_64 pcsc-lite-1.8.2-2.mga2.x86_64 udisks-1.0.4-6.mga2.x86_64 vboxadditions-kernel-3.3.4-desktop-1.mga2-4.1.12-2.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-acecad-1.5.0-3.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-aiptek-1.4.1-1.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-evtouch-0.8.8-9.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-fpit-1.4.0-3.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-hyperpen-1.4.1-3.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-joystick-1.6.0-5.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-keyboard-1.6.1-1.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-mouse-1.7.1-4.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-mutouch-1.3.0-3.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-penmount-1.5.0-3.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-input-void-1.4.0-3.mga2.x86_64 x11-driver-video-vboxvideo-4.1.12-1.mga2.x86_64 xrandr-1.3.5-1.mga2.x86_64 After performing this, I reboot. Nothing's broken. HOWEVER...if I run urpme --auto-orphans again I get this list: urpme --auto-orphans writing /var/lib/rpm/installed-through-deps.list To satisfy dependencies, the following package will be removed (7.7MB): (orphan package) iwlwifi-agn-ucode-20120421-3.mga2.nonfree.noarch Note that removing that particular package WILL disable my wireless card. I believe its related to how, for some reason, auto orphans wanted kernel-firmware-nonfree-20120421-3.mga2.nonfree.noarch removed.
Just confirmed it. The removal of kernel-firmware-nonfree-20120421-3.mga2.nonfree.noarch caused it to flag my wireless driver as an orphan erroneously. Reinstalling kernel-firmware-nonfree-20120421-3.mga2.nonfree.noarch removes the driver from the orphan list.
great test case :)
CC: sysadmin-bugs => thierry.vignaud
That's wrong. What you want is for draklive to set up properly /var/lib/rpm/inst*
Source RPM: urpmi => draklive
(In reply to comment #6) > great test case :) I've had this happen enough to make sure I had a good test case going for it. So thank you :P (In reply to comment #7) > That's wrong. > What you want is for draklive to set up properly /var/lib/rpm/inst* I'm assuming this is something that hasn't been done in the live environment? Oh yes, to note this was a fresh install of Mageia 2's gnome livecd. x64_86 (I wanted to experiment if I could get xfce4 running and trim out gnome as an experiment. So it was a good time to run this test case.)
Bug is still present in Mageia 2. Note, though, that auto orphan does not mark any packages EXCEPT the nonfree firmware package as orphan UNLESS you choose during install to remove unneeded drivers and languagepacks. However, the removal of the nonfree firmware package still causes my needed wifi driver to be marked up as an orphan, and while re-installing the nonfree firmware package does work...it will be once more marked as an orphan upon reinstallation. Note, if anything I'd at least like confirmation that the other drivers aren't necessary. Seeing things like "X11-driver-mouse" and the like makes me nervous. ESPECIALLY because I already know it can wreck my wireless driver.
Version: Cauldron => 2Severity: enhancement => normal
Summary: Notify users in GUI form to not always trust auto-orphans. => Auto-Orphans wishes to remove necessary packages
Severity: normal => major
Strange update. I've found that if you do an install WITHOUT removing unneeded locales and drivers...and then reinstall the nonfree firmwares after its been removed as an orphan that it will NO LONGER be an orphan. However, it continues to be one if unneeded locales and drivers were removed. I'm a little puzzled, to say the least.
Any word or update on this bug? I'm more than willing to help with fixing it, but I need to be alerted to any updates on Mageia's end regarding it.
Severity: major => normal
I already observed this bug in Mandriva and it is still present in Mageia 2.This bug is really annoying and not limited to drivers or mageia fresh install. Last time I noticed that I had about a hundred orphans. urpme --auto-orphans removed Dolphin, packages necessary for desktop display (the desktop was entirely empty) and probably a few other necessary packages that I failed to identify. The command urpme --auto-orphans is dangerous and useless. You _MUST_ remove the sentence which follows the orphan list ("si vous voulez les désinstaller vous pouvez utiliser urpme --auto-orphans"). Instead give a warning such as "Remove orphans carefully: some may still be necessary for other applications to run properly" or, if possible, give a list of packages that can really be removed safely.
Priority: Normal => HighCC: (none) => garaud
This does appear to be a bug inherited from Mandriva (I ran into this same issue while using their Live CD installers). I noticed this too, but only recently did I try something. I attempted to install via the DVD rather than the live CD. Seems to have made auto orphans FAR more docile, and less violent. So I'd have to say this does appear to be an inherited issue with the LiveCD installer, as the two installation methods do not share this issue (this also explains why some would not get this bug. Being from Ubuntu I used to swear by liveCDs. I'm slowly weaning myself off that "requirement"). But again, this does seem to be an issue with the LiveCD configuration itself, and it appears inherited from mandriva. All-in-all I could wager a small guess that the issue is that auto orphans needs some sort of starting point to tell it what packages wouldn't have dependencies just because they needed to be installed on their own. If the LiveCD wasn't properly setting this up, auto orphans would start assuming some necessary "from scratch" packages may be orphans erroneously. Again this is just a guess, but given the Live CD has pre-insalled packages and the installer doesn't...seems to be at least a semi intelligent guess.
Same here on Mageia 2. After uninstalling Audacity MCC suggests me to remove some important packages like fglrx, wifi drivers and I might also have seen the kernel itself.
CC: (none) => greenmaggotHardware: All => x86_64
The one and only issue I have with auto-orphans is the removal of kernel-firmware-nonfree. Should it be flagged as "unorphanisable" or something? Because yes, it might not be used right after the installation, but I suppose it might be needed if you add a device after your installation, or if you installed using an ethernet cable but actually also want your wireless card to function properly. Apart from that, I only saw auto-orphans wanting to remove necessary packages when there was a packaging issue (and there are always packaging issue, because a lot of packages are interdependent on each others, and the requires/provides/suggests can not always be 100% correct).
CC: (none) => remi
(In reply to Rémi Verschelde from comment #15) > The one and only issue I have with auto-orphans is the removal of > kernel-firmware-nonfree. Should it be flagged as "unorphanisable" or > something? Because yes, it might not be used right after the installation, > but I suppose it might be needed if you add a device after your > installation, or if you installed using an ethernet cable but actually also > want your wireless card to function properly. > > Apart from that, I only saw auto-orphans wanting to remove necessary > packages when there was a packaging issue (and there are always packaging > issue, because a lot of packages are interdependent on each others, and the > requires/provides/suggests can not always be 100% correct). Well the issue is if you orphan that package, then use auto orphans again it will attempt to remove items such as iwlwifi even if you have a card using it. To note I've found a way around it. If you reinstall the removed components using urpmi itself, such as urpmi kernel-firmware-nonfree after the auto orphan removes it...it will be reinstalled and I have not seen anything reinstalled this way auto orphaned yet. When I installed the liveCD and it wanted a large number of packages removed I merely reinstalled the list with urpmi after the operation. To note this is still a hassle. The expected behavior is after an install there should be no orphaned packages. However, the encountered behavior is there are, and some are system needed.
(In reply to Tyler from comment #16) Only the packages which were automatically installed (as dependencies of other packages) can be considered as orphans. If you install 'foo' with "urpmi foo" and it comes with the dependency 'bar', then: - foo will never be considered an orphan, even if no other package rely on it - bar will be considered an orphan if foo is removed, unless another package was installed in the meantime that also depends on bar. After an install with the classical installer, there are indeed no orphans. But with the LiveCD and LiveDVD, the approach is different: everything that is on the Live medium will be installed on your computer, apart from the "unused" locales and firmware that the installer can detect. If you chose to remove those "unused" packages, you should have no orphans, but it might remove radeon-firmware-nonfree and other useful firmware, if you were not using them explicitely while running the live system. And that's a bug, in my opinion, but it's not linked to using "urpme --auto-orphans" on a running system.
(In reply to Rémi Verschelde from comment #17) > (In reply to Tyler from comment #16) > Only the packages which were automatically installed (as dependencies of > other packages) can be considered as orphans. If you install 'foo' with > "urpmi foo" and it comes with the dependency 'bar', then: > - foo will never be considered an orphan, even if no other package rely on it > - bar will be considered an orphan if foo is removed, unless another package > was installed in the meantime that also depends on bar. > > After an install with the classical installer, there are indeed no orphans. > But with the LiveCD and LiveDVD, the approach is different: everything that > is on the Live medium will be installed on your computer, apart from the > "unused" locales and firmware that the installer can detect. If you chose to > remove those "unused" packages, you should have no orphans, but it might > remove radeon-firmware-nonfree and other useful firmware, if you were not > using them explicitely while running the live system. And that's a bug, in > my opinion, but it's not linked to using "urpme --auto-orphans" on a running > system. Not entirely the case. When I have it remove unused it still tries to remove nonfree-firmware. It does this because the ralink drivers it also provides are removed. HOWEVER, if you autoremove it as it wants, it will also remove the drivers that are used.
Hi, thanks for reporting this bug. Assigned to the package maintainer. (Please set the status to 'assigned' if you are working on it)
Keywords: (none) => TriagedCC: (none) => stormiAssignee: bugsquad => mageia
Summary: Auto-Orphans wishes to remove necessary packages => draklive should mark kernel-firmware-nonfree so that it is not removed by urpmi --auto-orphan
This message is a reminder that Mageia 2 is nearing its end of life. Approximately one month from now Mageia will stop maintaining and issuing updates for Mageia 2. At that time this bug will be closed as WONTFIX (EOL) if it remains open with a Mageia 'version' of '2'. Package Maintainer: If you wish for this bug to remain open because you plan to fix it in a currently maintained version, simply change the 'version' to a later Mageia version prior to Mageia 2's end of life. Bug Reporter: Thank you for reporting this issue and we are sorry that we may not be able to fix it before Mageia 2 is end of life. If you would still like to see this bug fixed and are able to reproduce it against a later version of Mageia, you are encouraged to click on "Version" and change it against that version of Mageia. Although we aim to fix as many bugs as possible during every release's lifetime, sometimes those efforts are overtaken by events. Often a more recent Mageia release includes newer upstream software that fixes bugs or makes them obsolete. -- The Mageia Bugsquad
Mageia 2 changed to end-of-life (EOL) status on ''22 November''. Mageia 2 is no longer maintained, which means that it will not receive any further security or bug fix updates. As a result we are closing this bug. If you can reproduce this bug against a currently maintained version of Mageia please feel free to click on "Version" change it against that version of Mageia and reopen this bug. Thank you for reporting this bug and we are sorry it could not be fixed. -- The Mageia Bugsquad
Status: NEW => RESOLVEDResolution: (none) => OLD