which one is it ? oxygen ? (my vm is broken :( )

yes, oxygen

almost all of the others at least have a separate color for the top bar... and thus are better... there's also this guy who made a bug on the crystal theme decorations... maybe it's better than the others? i have no preference, but it has to be different color...

Don't you think it's your personal opinion? It took some time for me too to get used to it. But now when i have used it on mga1 for some time, i'm really happy with it. If you don't like the default you can always pick the one you like.

I don't think that personal opinion on UI is good reason for opening bug.

CC: (none) => sander.lepik

could you open a bug report upstream for oxygen's related problem you consider as bug ?
I'm adding artwork team as cc to see if they have a better opinion.

(Please note that personally i found oxygen *far* better than iaora & i was one of thoses who wanted to drop iaora since mga 1 :p )

CC: (none) => balcaen.john, mageia-artwork

(In reply to comment #4)
> could you open a bug report upstream for oxygen's related problem you consider
> as bug ?
> I'm adding artwork team as cc to see if they have a better opinion.
> 
> (Please note that personally i found oxygen *far* better than iaora & i was one
> of thoses who wanted to drop iaora since mga 1 :p )

and imho i agreed with that at the time (oxygen as a whole), but for window decorations, if the title bar isn't in a different colour than the rest of the window, it's not good imho.

it's partly subjective, but i think the default _should_ have substantically different color than the windows. i'm slightly color-blind, so imho it should be sufficiently noticable.

i don't have troubles with the rest of oxygen, afaik.

I liked of the look of iaora, but look isn't important for me, and iirc you told me it was buggy and not easily maintainable and oxygen worked on both gnome and kde...

i just click too much times in the menu bar or window rather than the title bar, for dragging purposes, which is annoying to me.

(also, what's the button on the left doing? never tried it, but it seems a bit out of place)

(In reply to comment #3)
> Don't you think it's your personal opinion? It took some time for me too to get
> used to it. But now when i have used it on mga1 for some time, i'm really happy
> with it. If you don't like the default you can always pick the one you like.
> 
> I don't think that personal opinion on UI is good reason for opening bug.

yes and no, see above.

As John already told you, it's an upstream bug. So please report there.

i'm waiting for artwork's comment, if people here thinks it's a wont_fix, it's not really useful to actually report upstream

I prefer default theme w/o modifications. Less hassle for maintainers. And it should be easy to change yourself if you don't like it. I would have to report bug to change it back then, as i prefer it all in the same color. What do we do now? :P

(In reply to comment #7)
> i'm waiting for artwork's comment, if people here thinks it's a wont_fix, it's
> not really useful to actually report upstream

i don't see your point, reporting upstream can really be useful.

CC: (none) => dmorganec

(In reply to comment #9)
> (In reply to comment #7)
> > i'm waiting for artwork's comment, if people here thinks it's a wont_fix, it's
> > not really useful to actually report upstream
> 
> i don't see your point, reporting upstream can really be useful.

i just meant that if most people think that what is now is better than if it would have a different color, i'm not gonna force the issue. i'm a total noob regarding graphic stuff.

if some people see my pov, i'll report it, np there...

We can still use oxygen decoration style without using oxygen color scheme, this part can be solved by mageia-artwork.
However if you think it's a bug you should really report it upstream & not wait for the opinion of others regarding this. Maybe upstream are agree but did not find the time to change it, maybe there's indeed a bug introduced recently, etc etc so in summary it's better to report it.

(In reply to comment #5)

> 
> (also, what's the button on the left doing? never tried it, but it seems a bit
> out of place)
> 

There are two buttons on the left, the icon of your application is a menu
button, the other one is a button to shift between having your application on
only one desktop and having it on all of them.

TBH, I prefer oxygen without colour difference between the title bar and the
menu bar, because a difference can distract and thus irritate me.

CC: (none) => marja11

filed upstream as well...

URL: (none) => https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289842

(In reply to comment #12)
> (In reply to comment #5)
> 
> > 
> > (also, what's the button on the left doing? never tried it, but it seems a bit
> > out of place)
> > 
> 
> There are two buttons on the left, the icon of your application is a menu
> button, the other one is a button to shift between having your application on
> only one desktop and having it on all of them.

thanks for the info

> TBH, I prefer oxygen without colour difference between the title bar and the
> menu bar, because a difference can distract and thus irritate me.

i value your opinion, so it's like we have a similar irritation level between it being like this and not being like this.

(In reply to comment #13)
> filed upstream as well...

Do you mind giving the link to the upstream bug report?

Keywords: (none) => UPSTREAM

just take a look, he provided it on the URL field

i change it to be in see also instead

URL: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289842 => (none)

(In reply to comment #16)
> just take a look, he provided it on the URL field

(In reply to comment #17)
> i change it to be in see also instead

Oops, I didn't see it. Thx for putting it in the right place :)

first comment is interesting:

( https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289842#c1 )

> You can configure Oxygen to initiate dragging from menu bar, or even all unused
> regions. Please ask in KDE forums where to enable it. http://kde.org/support/

i would have closed this bugreport now that we have it upstream

wdyt ?

(In reply to comment #19)
> first comment is interesting:
> 
> ( https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=289842#c1 )
> 
> > You can configure Oxygen to initiate dragging from menu bar, or even all unused
> > regions. Please ask in KDE forums where to enable it. http://kde.org/support/

Well for this one you could ask me in fact :p
I did understand this bug as initially alien wants a *different* color for titlebar/menubar etc :)

(In reply to comment #21)
> (In reply to comment #19)
> > 
> > > You can configure Oxygen to initiate dragging from menu bar, or even all unused
> > > regions. Please ask in KDE forums where to enable it. http://kde.org/support/
> 
> Well for this one you could ask me in fact :p
> I did understand this bug as initially alien wants a *different* color for
> titlebar/menubar etc :)

He later explained why he wanted it to be different. Can you change the default behaviour for Oxygen in Mageia, so that you can not only drag the window from the title bar, but from the menu bar too?

(In reply to comment #22)
> (In reply to comment #21)
> > (In reply to comment #19)
> > > 
> > > > You can configure Oxygen to initiate dragging from menu bar, or even all unused
> > > > regions. Please ask in KDE forums where to enable it. http://kde.org/support/
> > 
> > Well for this one you could ask me in fact :p
> > I did understand this bug as initially alien wants a *different* color for
> > titlebar/menubar etc :)
> 
> He later explained why he wanted it to be different. Can you change the default
> behaviour for Oxygen in Mageia, so that you can not only drag the window from
> the title bar, but from the menu bar too?
Well the first step would be to see if configure oxygen like this is enough for alien, so maybe he can try to configure it like this (launching oxygen-settings is the easy way to configure it).
If it's ok i can add WindowDragMode=WD_MINIMAL in a default oxygenrc configuration file.

whoa, hey now...

i don't want to have this settings. as i explained, i clicked mostly on "menu" stuff, ie: not unused parts, and i loathe if there is a app with some space in between that if you click away from a field or something that your app starts dragging all over the place... /o\

no, i want a different color for titlebar, so that i don't miss my dragging by clicking accidentally on used/unused parts.

mostly, i get the top pixel row of menus, which appears to be part of title bar...

otoh, i'd like artwork team to have a comment on this, so don't close this yet. also, even if upstream has a bug report, it doesn't mean that we should close ours, we can still workaround or backport a patch.

as long as it's unresolved here (either by fixed or wont_fix) we shouldn't close this bug, imho.

and tbh, i don't think they'll be accomodating much, it seems to be their "look".

i understand we want to be a close to upstream as possible, but well, it's a bit irritating ime. i can of course always try to find a better window decoration, but i usually _never_ twiddle with style settings... too much of a hassle and you'd have to change it on ALL machines :-S .

(sorry for the noise don't know what happen :/)

Blocks: (none) => 4300

See also https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3493 - the "ugly decorations" problem should go away once this bug is fixed, no need to consider differences between Mageia and "upstream"

CC: (none) => juergen.harms

(In reply to comment #27)
> See also https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3493 - the "ugly decorations"
> problem should go away once this bug is fixed, no need to consider differences
> between Mageia and "upstream"

@ AL13N

Please read https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3493#c4 and look at attachment 1667 [details].

Your problem is almost solved

You'll now want to turn this bug into an enhancement request to have that box ticked by default, although others, like me, prefer to have it unticked :þ

I'll survive the change if our KDE team decides to honour your request, and I won't open a request then to revert the change ;)

removing the UPSTREAM keyword, because I think this can be decided and done by our own KDE team

@ lmenut

assigning to you, because mikala is unavailable

please reassign to bugsquad if this is wrong

Keywords: UPSTREAM => (none)
Assignee: bugsquad => lmenut
Summary: mga2a2: default KDE window decorations are ugly => mga2b1: KDE: please outline active window title by default
Source RPM: (none) => KDE
Severity: normal => enhancement

> You'll now want to turn this bug into an enhancement request to have that box
> ticked by default, although others, like me, prefer to have it unticked :þ

For me, this is less a problem of default settings. but a question of documentation. I dont care whether the setting is one way or another, anyhow I have my private "howto" for setting up KDE. 

But for "Improvements" that are non-transparent to the user (and the default desktop he obtains), there need to be some means to inform the user. I guess these 2 (unnecessary imho) bug reports will not be the end of it - once Mageia 2 will go into production, more users will hit this problem.

What about a short note in the (Mageia 2) release notes on iportant and non-transparent changes in KDE 4.8 the user needs to be aware about?

I don't know if release note is for such of things, but we can at least put some info in the errata.

Whiteboard: (none) => Errata

Well if we put all settings in errata because it's not configured as default settings we will have half of KDE and GNOME doc in errata, which is not the point. I would rather add it in release notes. This is not a bug but a way to to implement default design

(In reply to comment #28)
[...]
> 
> @ AL13N
> 
> Please read https://bugs.mageia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3493#c4 and look at
> attachment 1667 [details].
> 
> Your problem is almost solved
> 
> You'll now want to turn this bug into an enhancement request to have that box
> ticked by default, although others, like me, prefer to have it unticked :þ
> 

Because: (if I resume correctly)
- several people prefer to keep the default oxygen settings,
- only 2 people support the proposed change,
- the artwork team (in CC since 2011-12-24) didn't ask (& support?) this change, and artwork freeze is today,
- the default config can be modified easily in systemsettings, to match personnal's needs and tastes,
- sadly, default design and artwork will never satisfy all our users,

I will close this bug as wontfix.

@artwork team, feel free to reopen this bug, if you think we need to change this default settings.

Of course, we can add a note in "Artwork and design" section of release notes to remind users how they can customize the default design.

regards,
Luc

Status: NEW => RESOLVED
Resolution: (none) => WONTFIX

imho it's not yet resolved until someone has adapted release notes or errata or documentation somewhere

Release Notes are on wiki for beta2 and will be used for final one. You can do it yourself.

allready done

https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Mageia_2_Errata#Artwork_.2F_Design

Moved on release notes