It would be useful to include these backup/recovery admin tools to the Live ISO. They are pretty small in size (smaller than 1MB or a few MBs):
- clonezilla. helpful for cloning and restoring. There are pretty standalone clonezilla images, but it could be handy to have in Live, also for having the same hardware detection as mga.
- ext4magic, useful for recovering files which were discarded by mistake.
- extundelete, same as above
+ partclone (+1.9MB)
+ fdupes (+0.04MB)
+ testdisk - recover deleted partitions, FAT tables, NTFS boot, undeletes FAT, NTFS files... "companion to photorec" which is requested in comment 0, which finds files by scanning. https://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/TestDisk
+ fsarchiver - archives/restores contents of filesystems, compress and encrypt. https://www.fsarchiver.org/
( I see gparted is already aboard :)
I have not checked what is aboard, but maybe some libs/tools for more actions on more file systems?
The list of packages and the corresponding occupied size is in file "Mageia-8-beta2-Live-Plasma-x86_64.lst.full". Actually from a quick count there are 0.9GB (installed) of multilanguage gimp-help files, and 1.16GB (installed) of multilanguage help files, and 224MB (installed) multilanguage fonts.
testdisk (0.9MB + 20MB) is not there
fsarchiver (0.27MB) is not there
I'd say also:
+partimage (0.8MB + 0.1MB + 0.02MB)
+smartmontools (1.7MB), but not enabled in systemd
For filesystems there is already abroad:
(In reply to Giuseppe Ghibò from comment #3)
> The list of packages and the corresponding occupied size is in file
> "Mageia-8-beta2-Live-Plasma-x86_64.lst.full". Actually from a quick count
> there are 0.9GB (installed) of multilanguage gimp-help files, and 1.16GB
> (installed) of multilanguage help files, and 224MB (installed) multilanguage
You do realize that the isos are multilang, so obviously you will find a lot of multilang stuff...
One idea may be to make a "service iso" with english only, and no Gimp or other DTP aimed big programs. Just boot to a GUI and have system tools, plus internet browser, pdf reader etc to facilitate searching for knowledge. For occasional soho/home admins.
Well yes a case for https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Draklive2
Maybe an unofficial community effort?
One may think it is just like https://www.system-rescue.org/ - which is good - but they have stopped making 32 bit (IIRC) and with Live persistence Mageia is much easier to quickly add tools to, and save files, notes... to.
Yes. Well, another thing that could be interesting to have in live is the calibre, but that's extra 620MB of space for all extra libraries.
Indeed what you suggested can be made in another way, i.e. provide an extra superISO with a size bigger than 4.3GB, other than the current standard ISOs. Today the Live ISO is used mainly in a pendrive (though it might be used from the DVD-RW reader), for which 8 or 16GB is a pretty common size. Furthermore, blue-ray disks with 25GB size are also common too, so that a 7-8GB iso can be burnt there pretty easy. For smaller sizes/devices there are the current standard ISOs.
These requests for different flavours of Live ISO are why I spent a lot of time making draklive2 easier to use than draklive and documenting it. Using the GUI mode, anybody who has used the classical installer should have no trouble building their own Live ISO that includes exactly what they want.
The QA team is stretched to the limit as it is. We can't add more official ISOs.
Why are you asking for multiple tools to do the same job:
Please pick the best one.
I don't see a good argument for filezilla - you can easily download files from FTP and HTTP servers using Firefox.
I don't see fio as being useful for system recovery. You can run that on your installed system.
baobab is a GNOME tool and is already on the GNOME Live ISO.
There is no "best" tool or preferred one. According to circumstances sometimes one performs better than the other. E.g. in case of ext4magic/extundelete, sometimes you get better recovery with ext4magic, sometimes with extundelete. That's why I included both.
As for filezilla, it supports several protocol that firefox doesn't, such as scp, sftp.
For clonezilla/partclone/partimage, it's not said that you backup and restore with the same tool originated from the live. Sometime you need to just restore or just backup.
For baobab the plasma equivalent it's k4dirstat (btw, I just found k4dirstat segfaults as soon as it starts, so needs its own bug report).
For fio sometimes you need to test performance (e.g. degreded or not as supposed to be) before recovering.
Similar tools with slightly different features as well as bugs: together they cover more cases, and user files may be very valuable to save.
It is also about what operator is used to and best can handle to not miss some recovery opportunity, or make things worse.
(In reply to Morgan Leijström from comment #11)
> Similar tools with slightly different features as well as bugs: together
> they cover more cases, and user files may be very valuable to save.
> It is also about what operator is used to and best can handle to not miss
> some recovery opportunity, or make things worse.
And that's exactly why this idea dont scale...
Everyone wants different tools, ahd everyone thinks their favorite tool is the best one... so basically we should put the whole repo on the image and be done with it .... NOT ...
Point is they can boot up with live image, add online medias and install their preferred tool and go from there...
or precreate the the stuff they need with the persistenced stuff...
yes, some of the recovery tools do even belong on recovery image, but the same goes there... we need to think twice before blindly adding stuff... not to mention duplicates...
We are a linux distro, not a recovery tool image builder
(In reply to Giuseppe Ghibò from comment #9)
> As for filezilla, it supports several protocol that firefox doesn't, such as
> scp, sftp.
so does ssh. check.
oh, and rescue images have dropbear ssh server...
(In reply to Thomas Backlund from comment #13)
> (In reply to Giuseppe Ghibò from comment #9)
> > As for filezilla, it supports several protocol that firefox doesn't, such as
> > scp, sftp.
> so does ssh. check.
It has also ftp over tls (which is not sftp).
(In reply to Giuseppe Ghibò from comment #9)
> For baobab the plasma equivalent it's k4dirstat (btw, I just found k4dirstat
> segfaults as soon as it starts, so needs its own bug report).
k4dirstat has just been fixed in release 3.2.1. So it could be included in the plasma live.
Little update: still valid in mageia8-rc isos. According to the *.lst.* included files, none of the packages listed above were added, except 'inxi'. E.g. checking with:
grep -E \
(In reply to Martin Whitaker from comment #8)
> Why are you asking for multiple tools to do the same job:
> - clonezilla/partclone/partimage
> - ext4magic/extundelete
They do completely different jobs. The clonezilla stuff is for disk/partition cloning, which is typically done from Live DVDs (usually an Ubuntu-based one, would be nice to have a Mageia one easily available). The ext stuff is rescue stuff for digging into a filesystem while it's not in use (hence wanting it on a Live).
Let's not let this bug get out of hand with extra requests. Those tools are enough (and are small). We don't need any additional GUI tools.
(In reply to David Walser from comment #18)
> Let's not let this bug get out of hand with extra requests. Those tools are
> enough (and are small). We don't need any additional GUI tools.
It has got out of hand, which is why I haven't done anything about it. See Thomas's remarks in comment 12.
It's an enhancement request, so how can it be a release blocker?
Here is the summary (without inxi, which is already been added):
-k4dirstat (only for plasma, equivalent of gnome's baobab)
there is still plenty of room in the ISO, that I don't see particular space problem for these tiny apps.
(In reply to Martin Whitaker from comment #19)
> (In reply to David Walser from comment #18)
> > Let's not let this bug get out of hand with extra requests. Those tools are
> > enough (and are small). We don't need any additional GUI tools.
> It has got out of hand, which is why I haven't done anything about it. See
> Thomas's remarks in comment 12.
> It's an enhancement request, so how can it be a release blocker?
for me it can't, you are right.
Obviously it has to be a release blocker. Once we've released, the ISOs are done.
filezilla and k4dirstat are not needed. Some of the other tools really aren't that useful even having packaged in the distribution unless they're included on a Live ISO.
I was speaking about the Live ISOs. Regarding k4dirstat, I don't see why it shouldn't be included. We have already baobab in the GNOME Live ISO, but not in Plasma Live ISO, so I don't see why why shouldn't we have k4dirstat in the Plasma live, which is it's dual equivalent in the Plasma world of baobab. As for filezilla, I've already motivated, it would be fine to have a GUI tool supporting several protocols (including FTP over TLS which is not SCP), useful for downloading for instance restore images locally. sshfs-fuse would be also a good complement (peanuts in term of package disk usage).
Do we have some size number in MB for the whole list?
For mga9 we could (in advance time...) discuss more what to include and not.
- Especially now when it is so easy to create persistent Live to install more, I think some things can be excluded. I.e not support *all* languages in full. Maybe not Gimp - most users do not understand it yet it is default for viewing photos on Xfce (which i have even pondered to issue a bug for - it should be an efficient leighter weight app more for casual use to be default... regardless of this ISO size discussion). Etc...
Well, in the future we might also evaluate exceeding the size of 4.3GB for some ISOs or Live ISOs. Considering that most of installing media would be a USB pendrive (whose size is usually 8 or 16GB or more). Even on Windows and Mac the installing image size have exceeded 4.3GB since a lot of time.
lftp should be able to handle ftps.
ISO size is also about download time, and the size it eats from persistence space.
Maybe as a wiki page based community effort we could create a configuration for Draklive2 to create a minimal Live base, with option to add lists of tools.
Yes, that's a fine idea. The tools we're proposing in this bug should be included on the standard Live though, otherwise they'll be practically inaccessible to a lot of people. We'd like to be able to advertise our Live as a good recovery and cloning tool to people who aren't currently Mageia users and would not have the ability, interest, or inclination to generate their own ISO.
Latest 8-rc ISOs include
clonezilla (which requires partclone and partimage)
which covers the request for simple backup and recovery tools.
It's really not hard to add other tools if you want them. Just start MCC, add the distribution media, and install whatever you need. If you enable persistence, you'll only need to do it once.
Thanks. Please, can you add ext4magic too? It can complement extundelete (i.e. when extundelete fails it can still recover something and viceversa). It's just 250 kbytes long.