Description of problem: User decides to install Mageia in English. And why not UK English? So English (UK) is chosen. It follows that the keyboard layout is assumed to be UK. But this is only a test, planned to produce typical English messages, since that is the language of election in many forums/fora. The root user password is defined and the main user (with password) is created. Later on, there's the opportunity to change the keyboard and the user might think it is a good idea to configure the use of her/his national keyboard. The problem is that password were already entered using a different layout -- and translation might prove difficult (at least for some people with odd layouts). And, unbelievably, the UK national keyboard lacks an important special character commonly used in passwords. TL;DR: UK layout assumed ... passwords defined... Keyboard layout changed... Password confusion. This might have played a role in bug 19833. Actually, I don't know whether this is really a bug or user error, but it leads to suffering. A simple workaround is just using alphabetical chars for passwords -- and not going from a QWERTY layout to a DVORAK one, for instance. Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): This happened when installing Mga6 sta1. How reproducible: Always. Steps to Reproduce: 1. Describe above. 2. 3.
Well, our installer help clearly suggest to install the "language of your keyboard" as additional language in such cases: See http://doc.mageia.org/installer/5/en/content/selectLanguage.html > If your keyboard language is not the same as your preferred language, then it > is advisable to install the language of your keyboard as well. That should always make the first keyboard selection screen visible, long before the Summary step. Even without adding your own language as additional language, selecting UK English should have given you the early "Please choose your keyboard layout" screen, with the option to choose between 2 different British and additionally 2 different US keyboards, and after clicking on "More" you would have been able to select the Brazilian keyboard. However, if you're sure you got no keyboard selection screen at the _beginning_ of install (so when "License" in the left panel is still highlighted and pointed at), like here http://doc.mageia.org/installer/5/en/content/selectKeyboard.html, then please say so. For a pt_BR only installation, the first keyboard choice screen is skipped and a standard pt_BR keyboard layout assumed. I'm not sure that's wise. If you know of compatriots who need no other language than Brazilian Portuguese, but own a non pt_BR keyboard (or a non standard pt_BR one, there might be different ones nowadays), then please say so in bug 15732.
Keywords: (none) => NEEDINFOCC: (none) => mageiatools, marja11
Marja, from the link you provide: > If your keyboard language is not the same as your preferred language, then it is advisable to install the language of your keyboard as well. That line, uh, escaped me... > Even without adding your own language as additional language, selecting UK English should have given you the early "Please choose your keyboard layout" screen, with the option to choose between 2 different British and additionally 2 different US keyboards, and after clicking on "More" you would have been able to select the Brazilian keyboard. Of course, the opportunities to do the right thing are ample, but I "luckily" went into the wrong path and painted myself into a corner. > However, if you're sure you got no keyboard selection screen at the _beginning_ of install (so when "License" in the left panel is still highlighted and pointed at), like here http://doc.mageia.org/installer/5/en/content/selectKeyboard.html, then please say so. Sorry, I was talking about the text installation. I will eventually install Mageia 6 again and see if that offer was/is made when UK English is chosen. > For a pt_BR only installation, the first keyboard choice screen is skipped and a standard pt_BR keyboard layout assumed. I'm not sure that's wise. If you know of compatriots who need no other language than Brazilian Portuguese, but own a non pt_BR keyboard (or a non standard pt_BR one, there might be different ones nowadays), then please say so in bug 15732. That's a very valid assumption. 99% of all PCs here use the same layout (ABNT-2, with meaningless tiny variations, all wired the same way nevertheless). I'll ponder about it a bit...
(In reply to Renato Dali from comment #2) > > Sorry, I was talking about the text installation. I will eventually install > Mageia 6 again and see if that offer was/is made when UK English is chosen. > Thanks :-)
Actually, I reinstalled it yesterday (but it was Mageia 5.1 netinstall) and noticed that the user can select some English versions like: America English America English (US) America English (Canada) <- not sure about the order If one selects "America English (US)", a confirmation is asked about some alternative keyboard layouts -- UK being not among them. If OTOH one selects just "America English", the UK keyboard comes as first option. That's when I decided to try it. But then again, though I want English the language, I was not specially inclined to use a native keyboard. The opposite can be true: someone could use only English, but want an alternative layout to be able to type European names. All that is feasible if one knows how the installer works, but I guess the original idea was making the system comfortable to newbies -- those layout names are very confusing. The solution, showing many layouts or using some question-based system to finally determine the needs of the user -- it's all too cumbersome. In the end it's the convenience of having a system with less questions asked (which most seem to favour these days) versus having a better control about what one gets.
Thanks for the feedback, Renato :-) So you can select a Brazilian keyboard after selecting "More" when doing an English install in text mode, too, correct? Please reopen this report if I misunderstood! In an ideal world, all keyboards would correctly identify themeselves (their layout & language).
Status: NEW => RESOLVEDResolution: (none) => INVALID
quote > So you can select a Brazilian keyboard after selecting "More" quote > when doing an English install in text mode, too, correct? Yes. That never gave any problems. quote > Please reopen this report if I misunderstood! I'm not certain this is a Mageia bug because it works "as advertised", Maybe it's really a request for enhancement (i.e. improvements to make sure a possible pinch won't happen). quote > In an ideal world, all keyboards would correctly identify quote > themselves (their layout & language). Now, therein lies the problem: in an ideal world, a keyboard should identify itself regarding the layout _only_ ... not the language. What if I want to use a Japanese keyboard to write in Portuguese? Incredible as it may seem, that is indeed possible, since there are Brazilians who go to Japan to work ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekasegi ). ================================================== The present report could be summarized as: 1. User chooses a language which is not local. 2. User forgets (or is lazy) to add local keyboard and instead uses language's default layout. 3. User creates root password with special character. 4. User reboots, logs in and configures system -- including adjusting the layout to the physical keyboard. 5. User reboots and tries to login, but that is not possible/easy because that special character is no longer available. ================================================== I believe this can be classified as user error (thus I would agree with the bug being INVALID). Let's leave it like that. One possible solution -- though I don't know whether it is feasible -- is having all or enough layouts always installed and available for choosing at the display manager login screen. That is, regardless of user choice, other layouts would be installed by default. ******************* A second, perhaps less heavy idea, would be tying the keyboard layout not just to the language, but also to the chosen place/time zone. For instance, say one live in France, but wants to have a computer configured to use Spanish -- because e.g. it's a child from a Spanish family which recently relocated. During installation Spanish would be chosen, but with an Europe/Paris time zone. What keyboard layouts could be chosen? Both French and Spanish! *******************
Not to reopen the bug, but just adding an interesting detail to my comment #4: While in the graphical installation we get the options: America English (British) America English (US) ... the text version reads: America English America English (US) I think this is a source of confusion -- in the text version one is surprised to see a UK keyboard recommended for "America English". Maybe it's just me, but I read that as "generic English"...