I noticed M5 installation is different form M4.1. M4.1 offered an other option beyond KDE, Gnome, Xfce and LXDE options to have Mageia installed with IceWM as interface. M5 RC has no such option. I then deselected KDE leaving all options unchecked in the (incorrect) belief that IceWM would be used. I observed during installation that the graphical card was not configured, so I clicked on the respective button and corrected that. Notwithstanding, Mageia 5 display a somewhat long message stating there has been a problem in starting X, telling me to press a key to go to text mode and giving instruction to change a symlink if I wanted to get rid of that message. I then reinstalled M5 RC with LXDE and noticed it works fine. Maybe this is not a bug, but a feature... :-)
Priority: Normal => Low
Hi Renato, I understand it was in this screen that you deselected KDE: http://doc.mageia.org/installer/5/en/content/choosePackageGroups.html After clicking on "Next", didn't you then get this screen: http://doc.mageia.org/installer/5/en/content/minimal-install.html ? If not, then we'd need your /root/drakx/report.bug.xz from that (or such an) install
Keywords: (none) => NEEDINFOCC: (none) => marja11
Btw, I've "deselected KDE leaving all options unchecked" by pressing the _Unselect_All_ button, many times with Mageia 5RC. It always gave me the next screen, where I selected _With_X_ to get a working DE.
Hi, Marja, From memory, I saw one gets three options for DE: KDE, Gnome and Customize ("Personalizar"). I chose the latter. Then A screen similar to the one in your first link is shown, but KDE is always selected by default; I've never once seen Gnome selected. I then unchecked the KDE checkbox and clicked on Next ("Próximo"). Installation then begins with an estimated time of 20 minutes (much better than installing KDE with an ETA of 2+ hours). The screen in your second link was never seen. I mean never in like not once since Mageia 3 (at least), in any of my computers. Of course, I'm subject to memory flaws like everyone... > I've "deselected KDE leaving all options unchecked" by pressing the _Unselect_All_ button, many times with Mageia 5RC. It always gave me the next screen, where I selected _With_X_ to get a working DE. That may be the problem. I just uncheck the KDE checkbox -- I confess I've never used that "Unselect All" button. Since I didn't see "Other Graphical Desktops" option in M5 (it was there in M4.1), I guessed IceWM would be installed as a minimal option. After a while, package installation ends and a form is presented for me to enter root and user passwords. Installation finally presents a summary showing that the graphic card was not configured. I then did a manual configuration (some additional packages are installed, possibly Nouveau). After pressing Next, the installation is concluded with success, but the computer -- after choosing "Mageia 5 Cauldron" (default) in the traditional graphical boot kernel choice screen -- goes into text mode (progress bar at the bottom) and states there was a failure in starting X. I'll attach some photos and the file you asked. Thanks for the attention. Also thanks for everybody's dedication.
Created attachment 6677 [details] Default environment selection screen.
Created attachment 6678 [details] Default selection after clicking on "Personalizar" (Customize). Please note a fine line under Cinnamon/LXDE indicating the end of available options.
Created attachment 6679 [details] Summary screen showing "Graphical interface" as not configured.
Created attachment 6680 [details] Graphical card -- end of configuration.
Created attachment 6681 [details] Installation succeeded screen.
Created attachment 6682 [details] Text warning at boot.
Created attachment 6683 [details] File obtained after booting the freshly installed system.
BTW, next time, please use F2 for taking screenshots during installation. Images will typically be quite a lot smaller and better quality that camera ones. We would need your /var/log/Xorg.0.log file
CC: (none) => thierry.vignaud
Summary: Choosing no DE in M5 RC is possible and makes X fail to start. => Choosing no DE in M5 RC is possible and makes X fail to start with nouveau
(In reply to Thierry Vignaud from comment #11) > BTW, next time, please use F2 for taking screenshots during installation. > Images will typically be quite a lot smaller and better quality that camera > ones. @ Renato After instal you will find those screenshots in /root/DrakX-screenshots/ (You'll be reminded of that place when taking the first screenshot, but after that the screenshots will be made silently, without confirmation) > > We would need your /var/log/Xorg.0.log file
@ Thierry: Thanks for the tip about F2, which I didn't know about. Actually, beyond the main reasons you point out, it's way more practical to take a screenshot than using a camera. Alas, it didn't work. (LOL, again, sorry couldn't resist...) I had to reinstall things because of another test. Fortunately, it's all somewhat speedier because there's no DE selected. Like Marja said, there's a /root/DrakX-screenshots folder in the newly installed system. Unfortunately, after all the F2s I pressed, it was empty. What kind of file should be there? jpgs? pngs? Maybe it's some mistake on my part? I'd like to know because your suggestion really is a much better approach. Regarding the Xorg.0.log file, it's not available... it seems X was never even called. I typed "startx" myself, though, and got a log file; I will also attach the console messages I got when calling X (Xerr.txt). @ Marja: Thanks for the tip. You're correct, of course, in assuming I'd click on Ok and immediately forget the screenshots' folder :-( As you can read above, it didn't work. I examined the folder with mc... there was nothing there, apparently. Starting the installation again, I noticed there's a /mnt/root/DrakX-screenshots/ folder which remained empty after I pressed the first two F2s. Again, did I miss something about the screenshots? I also found (in Arch) there's a way to take "screenshots" from consoles: $ setterm -dump 1 -file screen.txt saves a text file with the contents of console 1 (so, it must be used from e.g. console 2). Anything else, please just ask. Thanks for making an awesome distribution.
Created attachment 6689 [details] Xorg log (X started by user)
Created attachment 6690 [details] Errors after startx...
Can you attach your /root/drakx/report.bug.xz? It'll give us additionnal info and also explain the issue with screenshots. I suspect fbdev failed on your machine and the installed switched to the vesa driver, which sadly doesn't support screenshots through the fb2png tool.
Attachment 6689 mime type: application/octet-stream => text/plain
So the issue is: (EE) NOUVEAU(0): [drm] failed to set drm interface version. (EE) NOUVEAU(0): [drm] error opening the drm (EE) NOUVEAU(0): 893: (II) UnloadModule: "nouveau"
CC: (none) => anssi.hannula, tmbSource RPM: (none) => kernel, x11-driver-video-nouveau
> Can you attach your /root/drakx/report.bug.xz? There's one from 2015-06-01 17:31... will it do or is another one needed? > I suspect fbdev failed on your machine and the installed switched to the vesa > driver, which sadly doesn't support screenshots through the fb2png tool. That seems really the case... from the mentioned file: * Trying with server Driver:fbdev * Trying with server Driver:vesa * waiting for the server to start (1 ) * waiting for the server to start (2 1) * waiting for the server to start (3 2) * AFAIK X server is up Knowing that, I could use some boot parameter to make things work (it seems Nouveau has a framebuffer, but it works at 15bpp IIRC). Unfortunately, that computer has only a CD-ROM driver, not a DVD one. I'm using PLOP to boot it from an external USB DVD-drive... and I didn't figure how to give boot parameters in PLOP yet. ... but I have a better camera! > So the issue is: > (EE) NOUVEAU(0): [drm] failed to set drm interface version. > (II) UnloadModule: "nouveau" I don't know. That seems to have not worked, but I'm certain it works when I install a desktop... let us see... with LXDE only... ok, I'll upload another Xorg log (with Nouveau).
Created attachment 6691 [details] X log with nouveau
Created attachment 6692 [details] New report with nouveau
To make things clearer: the former files were about an installation with no DE chosen. These latter files attached (named "*-nouveau") were obtained after an installation with LXDE as chosen DE. In that situation, "nouveau" works.
Attachment 6691 mime type: application/octet-stream => text/plain
Did you try "startx xterm" instead of just "startx"?
I think you had a good intuition. Trying your suggestion, I found out there's no /usr/bin/xterm... and neither /usr/bin/icewm. It seems my idea that icewm would be installed anyway was wrong. No DE without "Selecting individual packages" and explicitly asking for IceWM means -> I'm getting textmode. BTW, no twm, too... *sigh* those were the good times... When I configured manually the videocard, the installer somehow "decided" to install X, since I said I had a graphical card. But without anything else -- i.e. no xterm, no icewm, no nothing. Urpmi got xterm installed and then "startx xterm" simply worked. The next step was installing "urpmi task-lxde-minimal" from the DVD. It worked. In summary: - the options "Enlightenment e17 Desktop" and "Other Graphical Desktops" never came up (they are in Mageia 4.1); - the installer works at 800x600, but even in textmode those options are not shown; - I don't "Unselect All", I just unselect KDE; - that Type of Install screen (the second link Marja posted) never appeared; - installation commences immediately after I uncheck KDE and press Next; - the configuration summary shows the graphical card not configured; - it can be configured and X is installed, but nothing else. IOW, I think that everything is more or less working but: - the aforementioned options should be shown and - if X is installed, maybe icewm is needed. PS: - nouveau did work on my last reinstall; also, IIRC X can work even without drm... - curiously, there is a script (Xsession in /etc/X11) that literally reads: # Argh! Nothing good is installed. Fall back to icewm
Just did some further testing... For starters, sorry I have been somewhat stubborn: because I found it more intuitive, I just unselected KDE. Then things went wrong. Pressing "Unselect All" as suggested by Marja really makes that second screen "Type of Installation" appear. As there is an option "With X", I selected only that (unchecking "suggested packages" and "basic documentation"). This time everything was automatically configured (including the graphic card) and X was started. XDM was presented for login and after the password, icewm was started. But I had problems later adding online media/repositories, so I did install it over... this second time leaving those two options untouched and just toggling the "With X" checkbox. I think a minimal installation with X was successfully installed. Maybe we can close the present bug as RESOLVED, WONTFIX, if we write a note on Errata about the need to press "Unselect All", as Marja suggested. What do you think? I am reminded of the saying: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_is_the_enemy_of_good There were other problems after the installation, but I'm talking about them in bug 16066, comment #21.
(In reply to Renato Dali from comment #24) > I think a minimal installation with X was successfully installed. > > Maybe we can close the present bug as RESOLVED, WONTFIX, if we write a note > on Errata about the need to press "Unselect All", as Marja suggested. What > do you think? > Stormi will probably disagree with me, but personally I'm not in favour of adding this to the Errata, because if we add every corner case to it, many users will miss more severe issues that are much more likely to bite them. Users who want to see all issues that might be valid for Mageia 5, can search our Bugzilla for Mageia 5 and cauldron bugs. However, we'll improve http://doc.mageia.org/installer/5/en/content/choosePackageGroups.html and http://doc.mageia.org/installer/5/en/content/minimal-install.html so that it'll become more clear what needs to be done to get an install with only IceWM.
Keywords: NEEDINFO => (none)CC: (none) => doc-bugsAssignee: bugsquad => marja11Summary: Choosing no DE in M5 RC is possible and makes X fail to start with nouveau => Add how to get only IceWM as DE to our installer manual (was: Choosing no DE in M5 RC is possible and makes X fail to start with nouveau)
I'm not sure I understood the bug correctly, but I think it should be in Errata and that bigger issues should be more prominent in the document. Not adding FOR_ERRATA to the whiteboard, I let you decide.
Target Milestone: --- => Mageia 6
Essentially the bug is: ============================================================ X not starting with M5 installed in a certain way. ============================================================ It's a simple way: Install with no DE selected. What was expected: M5 installed with IceWM (as fallback). What happened: 1. 2 graphical environment options missing ("e17" and "other DEs"); 2. Nvidia card not configured; After installation: 3. X not starting; 4. X11 things missing -- icewm, xterm, ... 5. X works after "urpmi icewm" manual installation. Workaround: Install in a way Marja knew it to work. Result: An IceWM-only M5 installation (useful for testing).
(In reply to Renato Dali from comment #27) > Essentially the bug is: > > ============================================================ > > X not starting with M5 installed in a certain way. > > ============================================================ > > It's a simple way: Install with no DE selected. > > What was expected: M5 installed with IceWM (as fallback). No DE selected means no DE installed, so no bug here > > Workaround: Install in a way Marja knew it to work. That is _not_a_workaround_, that is _the_proper_way_ to do it. Out of curiousness: did you study the installer manual before trying? http://doc.mageia.org/installer/5/en/content/index.html Tbh, reason that I want it to be more explicit about how to get an install with only IceWM as DE, is just in case you had studied it. Not because I know you had.
(In reply to Samuel VERSCHELDE from comment #26) > I'm not sure I understood the bug correctly, but I think it should be in > Errata and that bigger issues should be more prominent in the document. Not > adding FOR_ERRATA to the whiteboard, I let you decide. I don't consider this to be a real bug, even if I'd like to make our documentation more clear about how to install no DE but IceWM
> No DE selected means no DE installed, so no bug here Actually, I did write more or less those exact words. I ended up erasing them to avoid my tendence to be prolix. The fact is that I don't get to see the remaining two options: Enlightenment and Other DEs. Why can't I see them? I thought about (and wrote and then erased) opening a specific report just about that problem. So, basically, I think you're right, Marja. ------------------------------------------ > That is _not_a_workaround_, that is _the_proper_way_ to do it. > did you study the installer manual before trying? Of course, I didn't read: I have a reputation to keep... :-P On a second thought, maybe I should have read the fine manual before reporting the bug... that might simplify things. But let's profit from the fact I didn't read it, so I can have a fresh and naive view of just the interface of the classic installer -- which is what a newbie would have as first impression. If I have a set of options presented to me, do I need to press "Unselect all" or can I toggle the only option which comes selected by default? Unchecking "KDE" and leaving all options empty would be enough, me thinks; at that time, I didn't know about the two DE options missing -- I just assumed M5 didn't have such options (compared to M4.1, which had them). Again, reading the docs would make clear that was not the case. I just assumed the presented screen to be correct and complete... now I know better. Even after I was told about the missing options, I decided the worst would happen is that they could be selected by default, so that when I unchecked "KDE", I still could have either enlightenment or "other DEs" selected, so I went ahead without clicking on "Unselect all" and bam! X failed to start. > I don't consider this to be a real bug, even if I'd like to make our documentation more clear about how to install no DE but IceWM. I think you're right to propose an emphasis on the documentation to stress the need to things according to a correct procedure. Would it help in my case (and for many newbies)? No. Because I wouldn't doubt the screen and check the docs. But at least when some dude would ask that in a Forum, someone could point the right page in the docs, saving a lot of effort for everyone. -//- The only factual part of this bug is the two DE options not appearing to me. Why does this happen? It's not about the graphical mode, I verified the options are missing even when I opt for textmode installation. If I were to be rigorous, too, the classical interface would need a change -- not just the documentation. Because even the two options come back, someone may still use the same method I used and unselect option by option. "Unselect all" (or "Clear all") in every application I've seen to this date has always been a convenient UI function, normally useful when one has 20 or so options to unselect. - // - Oh, well, sorry for being prolix... again. And thanks for everybody's hard work. Even if this were to be considered a bug, it's not really important because few users will install "no DE". The documented solution also eliminates the problem. Depending on how essential one views the documentation, one could even close this as INVALID, in addtion to the WORKSFORME or WONTFIX mentioned options. What would we write in Errata about this? An entry like "Please make sure to read the whole documentation before installing"? That is no error on part of Mageia, so it does not fit in the Errata, IMHO. The only relevant consequence will be IMHO the need to improve the interface for DE selection in Mageia 6. This is not something to lose sleep at all...
tl;dr 1. I agree with comment #29: not a bug, no DE => no X; 2. Two options not visible: that is for another bug IMHO; 3. Suggestion for Errata (in Software Issues): ------------------ == IceWM == To get a minimal IceWM-only installation, see <documentation link>. ------------------ I guess this would allow us to close the present bug. Please comment wdyt, whether I'm wrong on any -- or all -- of it...
Hi Renato, It's been added to http://docteam.mageia.nl/en/installer/content/choosePackageGroups.html and http://docteam.mageia.nl/en/installer/content/minimal-install.html It is unknown how long it will take for the addition to land on doc.mageia.org, nor how long it will take for all translations to be updated, too. For the inline documentation (help buttons in installer): you'll probably see it when Mageia 6 alpha 1 is released (In reply to Renato Dali from comment #31) > 2. Two options not visible: that is for another bug IMHO; Indeed, please assign it to docteam@ml.mageia.org (We need to update our screenshot of that screen for every language, so that no more DE choices are shown than the traditional DVDs have) > 3. Suggestion for Errata (in Software Issues): I still don't see the need to add it to the errata, I have strong doubts you would ever have filed this bug report if you had read the online istaller manual, or read the related help pages in installer. We haven't put thousands of hours in writing nice manuals and help pages from scratch, for users to refuse to read them.
Status: NEW => RESOLVEDResolution: (none) => FIXED
Thank you, Marja. >>> 2. Two options not visible: that is for another bug IMHO; > Indeed, please assign it to docteam@ml.mageia.org I'll do it, but before filing another bug, I'd like to confirm it in another machine I have. > We haven't put thousands of hours in writing nice manuals and help pages from scratch, for users to refuse to read them. The documentation worked very well as a reference about the installer, IMHO, and was decisive for a more fluid discussion on a medium which is not exactly easy (I mean this bug reporting system). That alone makes it worthwhile. After doing such things for some 4+ computers at home, plus one for a friend of mine -- and this repeatedly in the last years since Mandrake... well, I assumed I knew all those screens by heart. But I think you have a point in that I should check the documentation first -- if not more, at least to be able to make smarter questions! Please keep up with the good work.
Hi, Marja, I confirmed the mentioned options didn't come up when installing in another machine (non-AMD, this time). I was about to file a bug just like we discussed in the comment #33 above... but then, checking the docs at: http://doc.mageia.org/installer/5/en/content/choosePackageGroups.html I noticed the Enlightenment and "Other desktops" options are no longer available like they were in Mageia 4. Can you confirm it with the installer developers? (because Mageia 5 actually has an E17 package) If that screen is correct, the docs mirror the installer behaviour and there's no bug to file. Thanks, I hope you see this even if this bug is closed.
(In reply to Renato Dali from comment #34) > > If that screen is correct, the docs mirror the installer behaviour and > there's no bug to file. The screen is correct. I remember this being mentioned when iso-testing for QA team. > Thanks, I hope you see this even if this bug is closed. I did, even if I receive more mails than I can read ;-)
Oh, well... not much of an E17 user myself... thanks for the extra quick reply. Please keep up the good work!