Bug 27827

This is the n'th bug about Hebrew fonts we have seen (27635, 27639). I am not expert enough in Hebrew to judge the affair. The other two bugs were closed 'wontfix' on the basis that you can always install other fonts that you prefer. Accepting that you can at least get started with what is provided out-of-the-box.

I CC possibly interested parties for their comment, pending probably closing this also 'wontfix' or 'invalid'.

CC: (none) => davidwhodgins, lewyssmith, mageia, shlomif

A fallback font should only be used if the font you have selected is not available. What font are you selecting?

The fallback font is determined by the fontconfig rules, so it should be possible to make fontconfig prefer a different font. But I am no expert on fontconfig rules and can't read Hebrew, so can't really help with that.

(In reply to Martin Whitaker from comment #2)
> A fallback font should only be used if the font you have selected is not
> available. What font are you selecting?
> 
> The fallback font is determined by the fontconfig rules, so it should be
> possible to make fontconfig prefer a different font. But I am no expert on
> fontconfig rules and can't read Hebrew, so can't really help with that.

The selected font is Noto Sans Hebrew, this is the default font selection of KDE Plasma.
I am not expert on fontconfig rules too, but I can help with the font choosing and testing it.

In a terminal window, what is output when you enter

  fc-match -s 'Noto Sans Hebrew'

(In reply to Martin Whitaker from comment #4)
> In a terminal window, what is output when you enter
> 
>   fc-match -s 'Noto Sans Hebrew'

The output is:
DejaVuSans.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Book"
opens___.ttf: "OpenSymbol" "Regular"
Hack-Regular.ttf: "Hack" "Regular"
DejaVuMathTeXGyre.ttf: "DejaVu Math TeX Gyre" "Regular"
DejaVuSansMono.ttf: "DejaVu Sans Mono" "Book"
DejaVuSerif.ttf: "DejaVu Serif" "Book"
SourceCodePro-Regular.otf: "Source Code Pro" "Regular"
LiberationMono-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Mono" "Regular"
LiberationSerif-Regular.ttf: "Liberation Serif" "Regular"
NotoSans-Regular.ttf: "Noto Sans" "Regular"
Carlito-Regular.ttf: "Carlito" "Regular"
Caladea-Regular.ttf: "Caladea" "Regular"
C059-Roman.ttf: "C059" "Roman"
goldengi.ttf: "Golden Girdle" "Normal"
MiriamMonoCLM-Book.ttf: "Miriam Mono CLM" "Book"
b018012l.pfb: "URW Bookman L" "Light"
s050000l.pfb: "Standard Symbols L" "Regular"
MiriamCLM-Book.ttf: "מרים" "קל"
unifont.ttf: "Unifont" "Regular"
unifont_upper.ttf: "Unifont Upper" "Regular"
ElliniaCLM-Light.pfb: "Ellinia CLM" "Light"
LiberationSerif-Italic.ttf: "Liberation Serif" "Italic"
DejaVuSans-BoldOblique.ttf: "DejaVu Sans" "Bold Oblique"
6x13.pcf.gz: "Fixed" "SemiCondensed"
9x15.pcf.gz: "Fixed" "Regular"
D050000L.ttf: "D050000L" "Regular"
StandardSymbolsPS.ttf: "Standard Symbols PS" "Regular"

And the output from

  rpm -q google-noto-sans-hebrew-fonts

and

  fc-list | grep -i hebrew

(In reply to Martin Whitaker from comment #6)
> And the output from
> 
>   rpm -q google-noto-sans-hebrew-fonts
> 
> and
> 
>   

Noto Sans Hebrew is not installed on my PC, so the output of "rpm -q google-noto-sans-hebrew-fonts" is: package google-noto-sans-hebrew-fonts is not installed.

The output of "fc-list | grep -i hebrew" is:
Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/39-culmus.conf", line 21: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not work as expected
Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/39-culmus.conf", line 43: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not work as expected
Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/39-culmus.conf", line 53: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not work as expected
Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/39-culmus.conf", line 64: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not work as expected
Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/39-culmus.conf", line 75: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not work as expected
Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/39-culmus.conf", line 86: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not work as expected
Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/39-culmus.conf", line 98: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not work as expected
Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/39-culmus.conf", line 110: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not work as expected
Fontconfig warning: "/etc/fonts/conf.d/39-culmus.conf", line 120: Having multiple values in <test> isn't supported and may not work as expected

(In reply to Omer I.S. from comment #7)
> (In reply to Martin Whitaker from comment #6)
> > And the output from
> > 
> >   rpm -q google-noto-sans-hebrew-fonts
> > 
> > and
> > 
> >   
> 
> Noto Sans Hebrew is not installed on my PC, so the output of "rpm -q
> google-noto-sans-hebrew-fonts" is: package google-noto-sans-hebrew-fonts is
> not installed.

Oh my God. I'm sorry this is contradictory from your original post, but please install this package and you will have good hebrew font support.

I acknowledge that this should be installed. Why it is not the case?

CC: (none) => ouaurelien

If I remember well, this is a duplicate of a previous request.

google-noto-sans-hebrew-fonts is not installed because it is not listed in rpmsrate and no other package requires it.

As was said in one of the earlier bug reports, rpmsrate causes fonts-type1-hebrew to be installed by default when the language is Hebrew. But we would need additional fontconfig rules to steer the font selection process to make one of those be selected as the fallback font.

Again as said earlier, adding all the google-noto fonts in rpmsrate would cause problems with the ISO size. We would need to replace the current recommendations. And that would still not help with other DEs that don't select Noto Sans as the default font.

There maybe is a good argument for changing the fonts recommended by rpmsrate to be the google-noto fonts, but a major change like that needs wider discussion, and should be done according to https://wiki.mageia.org/en/Features_policy.

Almost every open font used by the desktop environments does not support Hebrew, so DejaVu font, the fallback font, is used, and DejaVu still does not support Niqqud as well. The pre-installed fonts are not good alternatives. May you include Noto Sans Hebrew only, please?

*LibreOffice's Liberation Sans font can replace Noto Sans.

Closing as wontfix.

Status: NEW => RESOLVED
Resolution: (none) => WONTFIX