Bug 15299

Both of the suggested solutions seem like something that you should report upstream. Not much we can do here..

CC: (none) => mageia

> something that you should report upstream.

Where to report?

   (bugs.freedesktop for pulseaudio?)

This ridiculous situation is going to hit newcomers to Mageia hard, as well as existing users.

See also:  https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89158

In https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=89158 :

--- Comment #1 from David Henningsson <david.henningsson@canonical.com> ---
> Well, Gnome and Ubuntu/Unity both have another GUI application
> (gnome-control-center) which reorganises things in a (IMO) more straight
> forward way.

> Pavucontrol more reflects PulseAudio's internal organisation of objects.

> Maybe gnome-control-center is installable in Mageia?

Anyone make any sense of all that?!

> Anyone make any sense of all that?!

No response, so it looks as though Mageia Skype users having USB webcamns will continue to hit the above brick wall....

(In reply to Maurice Batey from comment #5)
> > Anyone make any sense of all that?!
> 
> No response, so it looks as though Mageia Skype users having USB webcamns
> will continue to hit the above brick wall....

What do you propose? That we stop fixing bugs in the installer? That we delay the release of Mageia 5 forever? We're all benevolent contributors, you getting no response doesn't mean nobody cares.

This can still be fixed after Mageia 5 is released, via an update, if we find a solution.

> What do you propose? 

   I did propose 2 solutions! (See above)

> That we stop fixing bugs in the installer? That we delay the release of 
> Mageia 5 forever? 

  Not at all. Nowhere did I suugest that.

> We're all benevolent contributors,

  I am a (minor) player in the QA team.

> you getting no response doesn't mean nobody cares.

   But that was implied in the silent response...

> This can still be fixed after Mageia 5 is released, via an update, 
> if we find a solution.

  I do hope so. Personally I have no problem, as I know how to achieve the needed setup (as described above). It's the newcomers I care about...

Now the best thing we can do it explain to users how to do in the Errata wiki page, then try to have it solved afterwards.

(In reply to Maurice Batey from comment #0)
> Description of problem:
> 
> When testing a Skype installation (using Skype's Test Call), there is no GUI
> facility to specify "Use webcam microphone". (default is 'builtin mic')

You did not say which Desktop Environment you are using, as the options to control sound configuration are typically built in to the Desktop Env's configuration GUIs.

Under GNOME:

Go to Settings -> Sound -> Input and click on the device you want.

(this is what David suggested with GNOME Control Centre).

Under KDE, got to Settings -> Audio -> and then pick the appropriate device for the "VOIP" Input Category.

Under other GUI's the appropriate tools/widgets should be used.

If all else fails, you can use pavucontrol.

> 1. Install Skype. Connect. Select Menu/Options/Audio
> 
> 2. Note that audio option 'Microphone' has only 1 option (Pulseaudio)
> 
> 3. In Pulseaudio Control (a.k.a. 'pavucontrol') note that US webcam is shown
> 2nd in 'Input Devices list, but no means of specifying 'Use webcam mic'
> (although if its volume button is moved to the right, any use of the webcam
> mic is refelcted in the 'blue line' meter.

If multiple input devices exist there should be a "Set as fallback" button in pavucontrol. This represents the default device to use in the absence of any more specific configuration. Are you saying this is missing?

> 4. Select 'Test Call' and speak into webcam mic.
> 
> 5. Note that Skype plays back no audio.
> 
> N.B. The only way to select webcam mic seems to be to select it in the
> "Recording" section of pavucontrol, BUT if no recording is in progress then
> nothing appears in that section!

This is expected. You cannot control an individual recording stream until it is created.

> So must proceed as follows:
> 
>    (a) Open the pavucontrol 'Recording' section
>    (b) Start a Test Call
>    (c) In 'Recording' the default input source (builtin mic line) is now
> shown.

No, this is not the "default input source", this is the input source used *for Skype*. It will not affect any other applications. Use the "Set as fallback" option on the Input Devices tab for that purpose.

>        Click on that and a line appears showing the webcam info.
>    (d) Click on the webcam info to set 'webcam mic' as the default input for
> Skype. (This appears to persist across later startups of Skype from then on.)

Indeed. You've provided a specific override for Skype in this case. It will now no longer use the fallback options defined on the "Input Devices" tab, but use this specific configuration.

> All that seems a bizarre hoop to have to jump through, and I have seen
> reports on the web of others who failed to find that solution and so ditched
> pavucontrol altogether in favour of e.g. ALSA.

You can't "ditch pavucontrol" in favour of ALSA. That doesn't make sense.

You can "ditch pavucontrol" in favour of some other PA control application and in most cases people would use the GUI/widgets provided by their desktop environment.

> Suggested solutions:
> 
>    - In Audio options, allow 'webcam' to be selected in the Microphone line

Where are these "Audio options"? If you mean in Skype, then this is not something we can control, as it's not Open Source Software. Please ask Microsoft to add this feature, although note, as an upstream PulseAudio contributor and former maintainer, I specifically asked the Skype people NOT to do that. Doing so overrides other policy modules that may be in place for PulseAudio with specific configuration that might be hard to override.

For example, VOIP calls (not just Skype) will automatically use any USB or Bluetooth Handset or Headset devices if no specific overriding configuration is found. Some DE's (such as KDE) implement a priority list of preferences depending on device presence. Adding features at the Skype side specifically breaks policy downstream.


> OR - In pavucontrol 'Input Devices' provide an option to select webcam mic.

It does. At least for me.


This is how things have worked for several releases. It seems to me that there is nothing particularly new here and if any effort is to be made it's in making the DE's more user friendly so that the tools to control audio configuration can be more easily found.

Therefore closing this Mageia Bug. Please take the issue up with the appropriate DEs.

Status: NEW => RESOLVED
Resolution: (none) => WONTFIX

Colin, docteam, what would be very nice if we haven't it yet, would be a wiki page dedicated to sound configuration, taking into account the current state of pulseaudio, DEs, etc.

CC: (none) => doc-bugs

> You did not say which Desktop Environment you are using, 

   Didn't mention it was KDE as the problem seemed to be entirely within Skype.

> Under KDE, got to Settings -> Audio -> and then pick the appropriate device 
> for the "VOIP" Input Category.

If you mean 'KDE System Settings' (crossed tools icon) there is no such 'Audio' option visible on this 64-bit Mageia-5RC install.(Nothing under 'Input devices';
looked under "Instant messaging and VOIP" but no clues there.)
  Happy yo look again if I have missed something...

> If all else fails, you can use pavucontrol.

  But as I mentioned above, pavucontrol does not help here.

   N.B. The webcam is USB, not builtin.

Also as I mentioned earlier, there are many other reports out on the web from users having the same problem.

From my position all I could do is report the problem, provide a workround, and propose a solution - which I did. 
  Perhaps the workround will have to suffice - as long is users know about it.

I'm happy for you and others who do not have this problem, but I and others DO!

> Please ask Microsoft to add this feature,

  I was beginning to wonder if the glitch was perhaps a MS Trojan Horse aimed at Linux. :-)

(In reply to Maurice Batey from comment #11)
> > You did not say which Desktop Environment you are using, 
> 
>    Didn't mention it was KDE as the problem seemed to be entirely within
> Skype.
> 
> > Under KDE, got to Settings -> Audio -> and then pick the appropriate device 
> > for the "VOIP" Input Category.
> 
> If you mean 'KDE System Settings' (crossed tools icon) there is no such
> 'Audio' option visible on this 64-bit Mageia-5RC install.(Nothing under
> 'Input devices';
> looked under "Instant messaging and VOIP" but no clues there.)
>   Happy yo look again if I have missed something...

There is definitely a GUI provided for this within KDE System Settings (I know because I wrote it!).

I don't personally use KDE, but it's in there somewhere. It's perhaps called "Sound" rather than "Audio", or even "Multimedia" - I forget exactly.

Ultimately the GUI will look something like this:

http://colin.guthr.ie/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/phonon-pulse-kde.jpg (from my post: http://colin.guthr.ie/2009/10/kde-plus-pulseaudio-does-not-equal-sucks/)


In this screenshot you would look at the "Communication" category under "Audio Capture" (I referred to "VOIP" before but I forgot KDE opts to call this "Communication")

> > If all else fails, you can use pavucontrol.
> 
>   But as I mentioned above, pavucontrol does not help here.

And I explained that it does :)
 
>    N.B. The webcam is USB, not builtin.

This shouldn't matter. It will appear and disappear from the "Input devices" tab in pavucontrol when you plug it in or unplug it (and it will become greyed out on unplug in the above KDE GUI - see my screen shot).

I've explained that you click the "Use as fallback" button to make it the default for new streams (unless other configuration exists which, in KDE, it does in the form of the above priority lists which will take preferences).

> I'm happy for you and others who do not have this problem, but I and others
> DO!

Unfortunately the "workaround" also introduces different metadata that will also cause interesting problems - like overriding the priority configuration shown clearly in KDE settings with higher priority rules that are much more hidden.

That's the problem with "workarounds" on the internet - most of them are just plain wrong. Please re-read my previous explanations. If you still cannot see things listed appropriate, please provide screenshots as I'm not a KDE user.

> There is definitely a GUI provided for this within KDE System Settings 

  Found it!  
     3 levels down in 'Multimedia/Audio & Video Settings/Audio Recordings'

and it showed my Quickcam webcam as 2nd choice, so selected that as 'preferred' (after which it moved to 1st choice). 

Confidently I then started Skype and tried a Test Call, but I'm sorry to say that pavucontrol's 'Recording' tab still showed 'Builtin Audio Analogue Stereo' and the test call did not record. See:  
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10969499/skype-audio-1.JPG
(Note the system audio setting correctly shows Quickcam as preferred input.)

Then made another test call, and this time when pavucontrol's 'Recording' tab  showed 'Builtin Audio Analogue Stereo' I clicked on that and saw an option* offering a choice that included 'Quickcam' so selected that and the test call DID record.  
   (N.B. That selection is one of the workrounds I described earlier).

(* See the following:
  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10969499/skype-audio-2.JPG )

Did I do something wrong, or am I back to square 1?

> pavucontrol's 'Recording' tab still showed 'Builtin Audio Analogue Stereo'

But I did notice that - in pavucontrol's 'Input' page - it now shows the webcam 1st,  with 'Builtin Audio Analogue Stereo'' now 2nd, i.e. it has reversed their positions. 
  So it apparently has noted the Multimedia setting and promoted the webcam to 1st on the Input page, but Recording continues to use Builtin Audio Analogue Stereo, so the test call does not record (until I change the Recording setting to webcam).

(In reply to Maurice Batey from comment #15)
> > pavucontrol's 'Recording' tab still showed 'Builtin Audio Analogue Stereo'
> 
> But I did notice that - in pavucontrol's 'Input' page - it now shows the
> webcam 1st,  with 'Builtin Audio Analogue Stereo'' now 2nd, i.e. it has
> reversed their positions. 
>   So it apparently has noted the Multimedia setting and promoted the webcam
> to 1st on the Input page, but Recording continues to use Builtin Audio
> Analogue Stereo, so the test call does not record (until I change the
> Recording setting to webcam).

The order in pavucontrol is not representative. It would typically order them in the order it detects them but nothing should be read into this what-so-ever.



(In reply to Maurice Batey from comment #14)
> > There is definitely a GUI provided for this within KDE System Settings 
> 
>   Found it!  
>      3 levels down in 'Multimedia/Audio & Video Settings/Audio Recordings'
> 
> and it showed my Quickcam webcam as 2nd choice, so selected that as
> 'preferred' (after which it moved to 1st choice). 
> 
> Confidently I then started Skype and tried a Test Call, but I'm sorry to say
> that pavucontrol's 'Recording' tab still showed 'Builtin Audio Analogue
> Stereo' and the test call did not record. See:  
>     https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10969499/skype-audio-1.JPG
> (Note the system audio setting correctly shows Quickcam as preferred input.)

As I mentioned in an earlier comment, the fact that you've used pavucontrol and moved streams around, means that configuration now exists that overrides the category defaults.

If you had never touched pavucontrol, and only used the DE provided tools, everything would work as expected. You're essentially "going behind" the intended behaviour of the DE audio design.


In order to restore it, you should use kmix (the KDE mixer). Load up the mixer gui, go to the "Capture Streams" tab (the equiv of pavucontrol's Recording tab). When you start recording in Skype (i.e. do your test call) the stream will appear here. Right click on it and under the "Move..." context menu (I think that's what it's called) select "default for category". This will remove the overriding configuration and allow the routing to use the category preferences.


> Did I do something wrong, or am I back to square 1?

Not specifically. It's just that you're using several tools and venturing beyond the DE provided tools to ultimately create saved preferences that conflict with each other.

If you use KDE and stick with KDE tools and configurations, all should be well. If you mix in match you'll be doing things that might ultimately conflict with each other and result in confusing configuration.

Hope this helps.

> It's just that you're using several tools and venturing beyond the DE provided tools to ultimately create saved preferences that conflict with each other.

> If you use KDE and stick with KDE tools and configurations, all should be well.

Using the KDE/System Settings/Mulimedia... setting would alter audio input for everything, wouldn't it?  That would screw up any use of a separate microphone.
   All I needed was for Skype to use the webcam, which it does find, but fails to provide a means of selecting it for audio. (It automatically uses the webcam for VIDEO, so no need to change KDE video settings for that.)

I shall try your recommended KDE approach on a new install, but for the time being I know how to get want I need.

As I said before, it's the newcomers I'm concerned about, for I can see them scratching their heads - like I & others have done - when trying to get Skype to take audio from a USB webcam, because if Skype shows them it knows all about the webcam (e.g. uses the webcam video automatically and shows the webcam audio in the Input page), why would they look elsewhere (e.g. KDE/Settings/Multimedia) for a solution?

(In reply to Maurice Batey from comment #17)
> > If you use KDE and stick with KDE tools and configurations, all should be well.
> 
> Using the KDE/System Settings/Mulimedia... setting would alter audio input
> for everything, wouldn't it?  

No. If you only change the "Communication" priority list, it will only affect applications tagged as such. e.g. it would affect Skype (which labels itself as such), but also other VOIP apps.

> That would screw up any use of a separate microphone.

So you want some VOIP apps to use it but others to not? If that's the case, use kmix to move your stream (or pavucontrol if you must) and it will override the category). Kmix at least indicates more clearly regarding the category system.


> As I said before, it's the newcomers I'm concerned about, for I can see them
> scratching their heads - like I & others have done - when trying to get
> Skype to take audio from a USB webcam, because if Skype shows them it knows
> all about the webcam (e.g. uses the webcam video automatically and shows the
> webcam audio in the Input page), why would they look elsewhere (e.g.
> KDE/Settings/Multimedia) for a solution?

Well, regardless, Skype is closed source so we cannot do anything with that and I disagree that invididual applications should even have GUIs for video or audio settings. All of this should be done centrally following a DE-led UX design pattern. Individual apps all follow different UX patterns meaning users have to learn totally separate systems if they all include their own config GUIs. If the DE provides such config, then there is only one thing to learn rather than learning for every application.

Anyway, this is going beyond a bug report so I won't comment further.